WEBVTT 00:00:02.895 --> 00:00:14.176 My most scary moment, I worked with Jane Fonda once, and that was very terrifying for me. So that's like my proudest moment because I was like idolizing her. I still can't believe I did it. 00:00:14.176 --> 00:00:28.800 you know like i'm like still so that's my like proudest moment hello hello hello welcome to episode six of the metacast podcast 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:42.192 This is Arnab, your host. And with me, I have Ilya. Hey, I'm Ilya. I'm a co-host of this podcast, as Arnab just said. And today we have Steph Colborne on the show as a guest. 00:00:42.192 --> 00:00:55.375 And Steph is podcast producer and a CEO and the owner of a full stack podcast producing company. Steph, do you want to introduce yourself? Hi, I'm Steph calling in. 00:00:55.375 --> 00:01:06.896 from new york yeah i own a full suite production company called edit audio we are based kind of all over but canada the u.s and the uk mostly 00:01:06.896 --> 00:01:20.608 And we make podcasts for a bunch of brands. We make a few of our own original series. And we are founded as a direct response to get more diverse voices in the industry. So we do a lot of partnerships with different organizations to make that happen. 00:01:20.608 --> 00:01:27.647 Yeah, we are excited to chat about this today. Our episodes usually with the guests are with podcasters. 00:01:27.647 --> 00:01:35.840 Uh, but Ilya is a big fan of the post light podcast and he got me started listening to it like about a year back, I think too. 00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:46.159 And in there, we came to know that you're the editor of that podcast. And we love that episode 300 of the post-light show, right? We'll add it in the show notes too. 00:01:46.159 --> 00:02:02.256 I thought it would be cool to have you on the show for a behind-the-scenes look at podcasting. Yeah, well, thanks for having me. Yeah, I think one thing that we learned from the previous episode on NAB is that we actually... don't give enough context about the things that we say. 00:02:02.256 --> 00:02:13.984 And then people listening to this will be like, what is PostLite? So PostLite is basically the podcast of a marketing, well not a marketing, like software development agency. They create lots of cool stuff. 00:02:13.984 --> 00:02:26.336 And they have a weekly podcast where it's just two guys, two founders, Rich and Paul, basically talking to each other. Sometimes they have guests. And Steph was a guest of their episode 300 where they talked about... 00:02:26.336 --> 00:02:38.319 the process of creating the post like podcast that's how we learned about Steph and we reached out to her on Twitter and she was kind enough to respond to us and get on the recording with us if you have not heard 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:51.616 It's okay, but you should try to go listen to that episode. It was hilarious. And I really enjoyed that episode. So let's talk about your company, Edit Audio. 00:02:51.616 --> 00:02:55.056 out.io that's how you spell your url right 00:02:55.056 --> 00:03:09.247 Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think I kind of regret making that URL. I thought it was really cute and clever when I first made it. But now every time I have to say our URL or email in any meeting, people are like, what? I'm like, it's cool. 00:03:09.247 --> 00:03:17.840 the dot io but then people are always like edit odd edit audio like it's just edit audio it's not that interesting 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:32.207 So just this morning, I was trying to open it up and I just went to like editaudio.com, right? It's available for sale. I know, I see. I think I'm being stubborn about it, honestly, at this point, because I want the cool one to work. 00:03:32.207 --> 00:03:42.048 No, I like it. Yeah, we actually wanted to buy metacast.com, but also it was for sale. Actually, I reached out to the guys. It was like 20,000 bucks that they asked for. 00:03:42.048 --> 00:03:56.912 I'm like, okay, so we're going with metacastpodcast.com. You said not to go super fancy. I guess edit audio would probably also cost a few thousand bucks. I mean, probably, yeah. Do people go to websites very often anymore, I feel like? 00:03:56.912 --> 00:04:06.415 I mean, our website is beautiful, but like no one is just like searching around on the Internet. I feel like if they're coming to the website, it's because they got the URL. 00:04:06.608 --> 00:04:20.687 Yeah, exactly. This is what I was telling Ilya, that it doesn't matter if metacastpodcast.com or not, because people will probably Google for Metacast Podcast and then land up on the URL rather than typing it out directly. 00:04:20.687 --> 00:04:35.615 So by the way, in our podcast, you have a lot of detours. So that's just the style. We will just like latch on the topic and just beat that horse until it's like super dead. Feel free to join along or lead us too. 00:04:35.615 --> 00:04:48.367 On different tangents. Yeah. So when you say full suite podcast production, what is that full suite? What's part of the services that you provide? Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people... 00:04:48.367 --> 00:05:00.911 think that you know making a podcast is just clicking record and then that's it but there's a lot of stuff that goes into it so we do everything anything that could happen during the process so that's everything from like 00:05:00.911 --> 00:05:13.504 pre-production to like building out a production schedule to booking guests to you know doing like content brainstorms building out studios consulting on equipment and then we go into editing 00:05:13.504 --> 00:05:28.384 post-production, sound design, music, and then we go into distribution, publishing, show notes, transcription, marketing and promotion help, and social media assets. So legit everything. We do everything. 00:05:28.384 --> 00:05:43.136 Wow, that's a lot. The thing I was surprised the most is the studio setup. You would do acoustic treatment of a room? Yeah. And is that physically in New York or you do it in other places too? 00:05:43.136 --> 00:05:58.096 I've done it mostly in New York. I've did it also in Montreal at a few places. And I went to or I was supposed to go to Indianapolis recently, but I broke my ankle the week before I was supposed to go. So I didn't go. But someone else went. 00:05:58.096 --> 00:06:10.944 Cool. So it's literally like you could take it from the recording part itself all the way to publishing it, or you could take it after recording and then... 00:06:10.944 --> 00:06:20.815 take over the rest of it not everyone hires us to do everything but we some people do hire us to do everything so it kind of depends we just like tailor it to whoever we're working with 00:06:20.815 --> 00:06:32.639 Yeah, I really like how you mentioned that, you know, people think you just hit record and then submit. I remember when Anchor came out back in 2015, 2016, I forgot exactly when it was, but the promise was you just... 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:43.632 turn the record button on your phone and the record, and it sounds like shit. It's not really usable, right? So I can totally relate to what you just said. So I'm curious. 00:06:43.632 --> 00:06:58.096 When you just started, I suppose it wasn't the full suite. You probably started with something smaller. How was the process of building a company from nothing into that little empire that you have now? Yeah, I started... 00:06:58.096 --> 00:07:17.951 um freelancing so I was just doing freelance work and I was mostly editing and post-production and then I started doing recording too so my background is in like sound stuff so that was what i started doing um and then as like my experience grew i started taking on more and more stuff 00:07:17.951 --> 00:07:32.240 Um, and I don't, to be clear, do all of those things. Like I have a team. So like, even when I started doing marketing stuff, I mean, I could advise to a certain extent, but obviously now what we offer, like there's a person on my team, Melissa, who's awesome and like special. 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:45.519 So I started off sort of like having contractors under me because I was getting too busy with work. And eventually I was like, oh, I should just hire these people and we can have like a company. 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:56.512 you know, build something together. So it really happened very organically. I was just like working and then I was working a lot. And then the contractors under me were also basically working full time for me. 00:07:56.512 --> 00:08:08.687 we sort of banded together. Sorry, what year was this? Like the when you started hiring the contractors? Like I should really know that answer. But I don't I want to say it was 00:08:08.687 --> 00:08:21.536 Like, what year was Serial? Let me look. It was before that. 2013 or so? Maybe even earlier. Yeah, I feel like it was like 2011. So yeah, I started in like 2011. 00:08:21.536 --> 00:08:34.990 Okay. And now how many people do you have working with you? There are nine of us on staff. Is that right? And then we have some like contractors and part-time people as well. 00:08:34.990 --> 00:08:41.408 Cool. So I think in that post-let episode, you mentioned you had seven. So it's a 20% growth or 15% growth over... 00:08:41.408 --> 00:08:55.168 the last 12 months or so. Well, awesome. I mean, I feel bad that I don't also know that off my hand, off my heart, but I should. It's probably a sign that you're enjoying your actual work quite a lot, so that's good. 00:08:55.168 --> 00:09:08.176 There's 10 of us, including me. So that's good. So I'm going to go on a little tangent here, right? Sorry, Ilya, did you want to go somewhere else? It depends on where I want to go, right? I wanted to quickly ask about... 00:09:08.176 --> 00:09:23.168 the experience of being the CEO and running the company versus like you really enjoy the sound editing part, right? And this has come up multiple times in Ilya and our like previous podcast with different guests. So in order to get your feel for like... 00:09:23.168 --> 00:09:29.967 how do you enjoy the part of running the company and all that yeah i mean i 00:09:30.416 --> 00:09:44.847 I never thought that I would own a company like I just I know it wasn't like I went to business school and I was like I'm gonna own a company and that's like what I'm gonna do so I kind of just fell into it I think there are like pros and cons to that you know I think I'm 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:54.991 not super like focused on like making a lot of money and like breaking like you know I'm not like a founder in that sense um so I think 00:09:54.991 --> 00:10:02.032 Because of that, I've sort of like created the workplace that I also want to work at. So to me, that's really cool that I can like build. 00:10:02.128 --> 00:10:16.240 a company that's like enjoyable to work at obviously you know capitalism sucks but like we have to make money it's just like where we are so i'd rather like work with cool people and make cool shit i love that part of it i am less 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:29.936 Stoked about like understanding the different taxes I have to pay and like filing different documents and like talking to six different lawyers every week and like, you know. 00:10:29.936 --> 00:10:40.063 That shit really gets old real quick. But it's part of it. I don't know. I think if we weren't mission driven, it would be a lot harder. But I do miss like... 00:10:40.063 --> 00:10:50.847 Just like last week or two weeks ago, someone on my team was like really busy and I was like, I'll edit an episode for you. And I just like, you know, went in and edited the episode. It's like. 00:10:50.847 --> 00:11:01.759 a one hour interview show. And yeah, so I mean, I can pick up that stuff when I want to or when I miss it. But it definitely definitely do a lot less of it. And I it is kind of sad. 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:15.775 and you really enjoy that part right this ilia this feels like when i say like i want to go back to coding and i i mean i am right now because i quit my job but towards the last few years it was like i really want to code can i get an opportunity to code 00:11:15.775 --> 00:11:25.072 Yeah, I yeah, I miss it sometimes and I have to do it. But like I go back in to do it. But I don't know. I think also like I have to listen. 00:11:25.072 --> 00:11:40.063 You know, I approve a lot of stuff. So I'm still kind of in the process. I get to give like feedback and like, you know, like pay like close attention to things and like have the ear for it. I'm just like not physically in there doing the work. But I mean, that's how we. 00:11:40.063 --> 00:11:41.488 Grow. 00:11:41.775 --> 00:11:56.368 You have a pretty impressive roster of clients. You have those shows with Google. You have PostLite. I think you mentioned Stack Overflow. It's not listed on your website, but you mentioned it in the PostLite interview. I mean, those are names. I use Stack Overflow pretty much every day. 00:11:56.368 --> 00:12:07.951 day it's such a great uh you know service for for technical people you need to get chat gpt now on your portfolio 00:12:07.951 --> 00:12:21.327 Yeah. Yeah. We work a lot with like people in the tech industry. I don't really know how that happened, but it did. And I've always actually like one of my first freelancing gigs was through like a venture capital firm. So yeah, I mean, maybe that's why. 00:12:21.327 --> 00:12:33.615 But we love Stack Overflow. Yeah, everybody loves Stack Overflow, I think. Yeah, we could not survive without Stack Overflow. I know, what did we do before Stack Overflow? 00:12:33.615 --> 00:12:46.975 Forums, I guess? Yeah. Yeah. So one thing I'm curious about when you do the editing for folks like PostLite or Stack Overflow, I suppose there are topics that come up there. 00:12:46.975 --> 00:12:59.951 that you don't necessarily have a lot of expertise in, like the technical expertise, but they still have to cut down those 45, 50 minutes to a 30 minute episode. So you actually need to make judgment calls. 00:12:59.951 --> 00:13:10.511 But what to keep, what to not keep, what would be interesting, what would not be interesting to the audience. I'm curious how you approach that. What's your mindset when you approach that? 00:13:10.511 --> 00:13:24.895 I mean, me and one of the editors on my team always make a joke that we're like the least technically equipped, like equipped, but most knowledgeable programmers in the world because like we can't do anything. But I could like, you know, talk about like. 00:13:24.895 --> 00:13:37.615 any i could talk about stuff i have no idea what it is you know um like to actually get in the weeds of it but um yeah i mean it is it is interesting i don't think i've ever had a like a 00:13:37.615 --> 00:13:51.696 Time where I wasn't sure whether or not to cut something. It's very like, you know, because even if I don't understand the like nuance of the thing they're talking about, I can understand when they're saying the same thing over and over again. So like. 00:13:51.696 --> 00:13:57.423 I can usually understand like what's important and what's already been said, regardless of like... 00:13:57.423 --> 00:14:11.823 if I understand the actual technology and like how it works. That being said, like usually keeping in those like really technical things, if I mean, it's also based on the audience, right? Like Stack Overflow is like for people who are learning and like are in the process of 00:14:11.823 --> 00:14:26.032 developing, whereas like PostLite has sort of two different audiences. So making sure that the content is what the people that are listening to it want to hear. Right. So like for Stack, if something is like way, way, way over my head, and I think it would be like way over someone else. 00:14:26.032 --> 00:14:38.272 his head you know i'll message ben and be like hey do you think you can like drop in a one-liner here so that we can get like like a pickup of someone explaining this or if something is like really like 00:14:38.272 --> 00:14:46.240 you know, convoluted. I'll try to make it like make more sense. So it kind of depends, but I don't, I don't think it matters so much. 00:14:46.240 --> 00:15:00.096 So do you tend to have the same editors work with, like for the Stack Overflow or the post-light episodes, do you have the same editors work on it? Yeah. So right now we have two editors on Stack. 00:15:00.096 --> 00:15:14.703 and one on Postlate. Those editors, they themselves probably tend to pick up a lot of information and knowledge over time and the style of how the podcasters speak and all that. So it makes it easier and easier over time. 00:15:14.703 --> 00:15:26.320 Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And you get used to like when people, you know, people make certain like voice sounds or put filler words in and you get used to like. 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:39.615 who like what those are for each person you're editing. And usually you can see when they're starting to trail off or like when they don't actually know what to say and they're filling space. So a lot of that you get to know with just like understanding the people that you're. 00:15:39.615 --> 00:15:54.416 editing over time. In that episode where you talked about the post-light production, you said that you know Rich and Paul's voices so well. You can look at this, I think it's called a spectrogram, and you just know what to cut without even listening. 00:15:54.416 --> 00:16:08.032 I feel pretty confident I could cut an episode of Postlate without listening. We should try it as an experiment. Yeah, you should try it. It'll be fun, yeah. Definitely Rich. Rich's voice is... 00:16:08.032 --> 00:16:21.392 Yeah, I definitely could cut Rich's voice perfectly, I think, without listening. Can I talk more about what tools you use for analyzing things visually? And what are the cues that you're looking for? 00:16:21.392 --> 00:16:33.104 that expertise that you developed, those patterns. So yeah, can you talk about those patterns and tools that you use? Yeah, I predominantly now use Logic. 00:16:33.104 --> 00:16:46.399 just because it's lighter on my computer and then i also use this this like program called amadeus it's basically it's not very well known but i i like it as like a 00:16:46.399 --> 00:17:00.816 like a visualizer it's not something I would edit in um but usually when I'm done an episode I'll plop it into Amadeus just so I can see the whole all of the tracks combined and and get like an overview of it um I also use it if I'm just like editing one 00:17:00.816 --> 00:17:15.152 single clip and then putting that into Logic. For people like me who have no background in sound engineering, what is Logic and what is Omidius? How do they like connect with each other? So Logic is like a very classic. 00:17:15.152 --> 00:17:25.248 DAW, which stands for a digital audio workstation. So that is like, you know, you've probably heard of some other ones like Pro Tools, Audition. 00:17:25.248 --> 00:17:35.471 All the major tech companies have one DAW. So Logic is the Apple one. It's basically like an elevated garage band. 00:17:35.471 --> 00:17:40.751 So with that, that has like views where you can have multiple tracks. 00:17:40.751 --> 00:17:55.119 moving around so you know i'm gonna explain it waveforms yeah in music terms because it's just easier but like you know you could have a track for each guitar in the band a track for all of the percussion a track for the vocalist 00:17:55.119 --> 00:18:13.167 track for the backup vocalist and you can sort of see them all in one view together but you can edit them individually amadeus is like comparable to audacity which is like an open source editing tool that a lot of people in podcasting start on and it is 00:18:13.167 --> 00:18:25.632 It doesn't have the full capabilities of logic. So the number one thing that it doesn't do is like, let's say I want to add an echo onto my voice so that I sound like a, I don't know, like an enchanted person. 00:18:25.632 --> 00:18:31.087 in logic i could i could put like a plug-in on my track so that 00:18:31.087 --> 00:18:45.008 You know, I sound like I'm like, like an echo. And I could keep that going. I could toggle it on and off. And it's sort of like live doing that in something like Amadeus or Audacity. Once you apply. 00:18:45.008 --> 00:18:54.352 the echo plugin it filters the actual audio track so it it actually edits the track and then that track is 00:18:54.448 --> 00:19:07.455 has echo you know you can undo it obviously but it like it edits the track rather than like just putting like a a filter on it so logic almost like uses it as like a pass through and you can turn it on and off and switch it up 00:19:07.455 --> 00:19:17.071 Amadeus is like it does the actual filter and then that is done. So you do it and you add these effects in Amadeus and then you bring it back into logic too. 00:19:17.071 --> 00:19:31.632 decide like i want it only in this specific part of the track or not really honestly i mostly use amadeus just to like look at the track after um i will also use it if i need to do something simple so if i am recording like 00:19:31.632 --> 00:19:42.751 And I only had, you know, I had two mics, but my interface could only see one track. So I pan someone left, I pan someone right. I'm going to get one stereo track that I need to divide. 00:19:42.751 --> 00:19:56.415 I'll do that in Amadeus and then plop the tracks into Logic. I could do it in Logic. It just would be clunkier. That's a very neat trick. I never thought about that. Oh, yeah. Tips with Steph. 00:19:56.415 --> 00:20:08.480 Yeah, that's very cool. I guess my audio interface has two inputs, but if I had like three mics or three people in the room, I could, yeah, I guess I could use stereo recording for one of those. 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:22.928 Yeah. Yeah. Now I'll keep thinking about that for a week. It's a hack. It's a hack. You also talked about using iZotope and stuff that Ilya also uses. Yeah. So iZotope I use as a plugin. 00:20:22.928 --> 00:20:36.703 in logic so that's cool it has like a lot of cool plugins that you can use and then they also have a really good like mastering program called ozone which can be independent or you can use parts of it within your daw 00:20:36.703 --> 00:20:46.160 Isotrope is incredible. I think it's the best thing that anyone has come out with software-wise for audio editing. So what do you usually do with Isotrope? 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:58.480 click removal and stuff like that or yeah it's a you can do a lot with like removing sounds so any sort of like echo or hum or you know transients anything like that you can take out 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:03.951 It's also good if someone's like track or audio is like distorted at all. So you can. 00:21:03.951 --> 00:21:18.127 You can go in and sort of like repair the waveform. So if someone's like clipping or something like that, you can go in and do a bit of that. You have like a really good visualizer on it so you can sort of see the different sounds and then look for that. 00:21:18.127 --> 00:21:32.463 in other places and they just have like really good ai so like the you can match different like room tones in it you can do a lot a lot a lot of stuff so if i was you know doing like a fiction podcast and in the podcast like some 00:21:32.463 --> 00:21:45.807 someone slams a door and goes into another room. Like I might want the room tone that they slam the door and go into to then come up again. So I could copy that tone and then apply it to whatever I record next. Wow. 00:21:45.807 --> 00:21:48.048 Yeah, you can do a lot of really cool shit. 00:21:48.048 --> 00:22:02.319 Or anything like even, you know, a chat show like this, if we do a pickup later with me and I'm recording in, you know, a studio instead of at my house where I am now, I might want the sound from my house. So I might take this background sound, put it there, and then it doesn't sound. 00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:16.847 off to the listener yeah and i think a lot our last uh episode we were talking about metallica how they recorded like 20 takes of the room tone for said but true and after i after i heard them say this i was listening to the song again 00:22:16.847 --> 00:22:25.711 And in that moment of silence, you could almost hear the molecules of air moving in the room because it's not silence. 00:22:25.711 --> 00:22:40.607 There's something coming out of the room, which is, I don't know how to explain it, but you, as somebody with a background in sound engineering, what is room tone? Room tone is, yeah, just trying to capture the sound of a room. 00:22:40.607 --> 00:22:54.895 when it is like, quote unquote, silent. So usually when you start a recording session in a studio, even, you know, like every studio, even if they're outfitted, has a tone. I think the only room where you can have silence is that like one room or there's like three. 00:22:54.895 --> 00:23:09.647 of them in the world i think or something what are those called they're like chambers something chambers but apparently people go crazy in them and they're like absolutely dead rooms like yeah there's like a anechoic chamber anechoic chamber 00:23:09.647 --> 00:23:14.751 And they're like, they're so quiet, like they're completely silent. Or I think they still have like... 00:23:14.751 --> 00:23:29.183 you know very slight but it's so quiet that like people say that going in it makes you feel crazy like you can hear your own blood pumping you can hear your heart like it's like so quiet that the other sounds like 00:23:29.183 --> 00:23:42.144 freak you out so i don't know i don't think i would personally like it i would try it out maybe but it sounds horrible but yes room tone is just like the tone of a room i am into astrophotography 00:23:42.144 --> 00:23:53.728 and there's a similar thing there it's quite interesting so to take pictures of like deep space objects which are far away and you have like atmospheric turbulence and whatnot right 00:23:53.728 --> 00:24:08.640 You can't just take a picture of those things. You have to take multiple shots, of course, like multiple takes. But you also have to take pictures of nothing of the camera. So you literally shut the aperture down. 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:22.976 with your shutter, and then you take lots of pictures, these are called darks, so that in that condition, the temperature and humidity, how the camera sensor is perceiving it, you get those shots with that. 00:24:22.976 --> 00:24:28.943 and you use that to remove the noise from the actual deep space pictures that you're taking. Yeah. 00:24:28.943 --> 00:24:42.271 So that is exactly the same process as recording, right? You're getting the room tone, you're recording it so that basically you can train the AI that you're using to remove it or suppress it in the final product. 00:24:42.271 --> 00:24:53.440 So Steph, when are we going to be in a state when we just throw an audio file at AI and it just spits out something that can be published? Honestly, probably. 00:24:53.440 --> 00:25:07.584 Pretty soon. I think there's like a lot of companies doing like really cool like voice AI stuff. I mean, we see that with like deep fakes and stuff, right? Like they're pretty good. They're not perfect yet. And most of them are only trained off people that like. 00:25:07.584 --> 00:25:22.400 You know, you need a certain amount of training to to train a bot. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know if we'll if we'll be at the place where you can just throw a file at something. But I do think we'll be at a place soon where we can sort of do like speech or text to speech. 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:32.559 So that's kind of cool. Yeah, actually, this script does that. It never worked with my voice. That's horrible, though. 00:25:32.624 --> 00:25:47.183 We like talking about Descript. We actually ask every guest about Descript. So far, the feedback has not been great. I'm turning it down a little bit right now. We use Descript. I have Descript. I think it's like... 00:25:47.183 --> 00:25:57.935 you know, pretty standard for the industry. It's super buggy. Like it crashes all the time. We have like login problems all the time. 00:25:57.935 --> 00:26:09.680 We have issues between the like browser based copy of the thing and then the app based copy of the thing, like syncing with each other all the time. It's like also like kind of race. I mean, it's not. 00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:22.864 I don't want to say descript is racist, but like it doesn't recognize any sort of like differentiations in voice. So if that's an accent, if that's a, you know, vocal tick, if it's anything, it's just like really shitty with them. 00:26:22.864 --> 00:26:37.536 I will say, though, it does provide some like really good comedy because like often it'll like mistranslate or mistranscribe like stuff. I remember this one time from the Stack Overflow podcast. I mean, I should find the actual. 00:26:37.536 --> 00:26:48.784 thing that it said but it literally was like something about anal and pizza and I was like there's absolutely no way that they're talking about anal or pizza on this podcast but like 00:26:48.784 --> 00:27:03.119 That's what Descript talked about. And I was like, this is hilarious. Great for comedy. Hasn't totally gotten to where it needs to be with the technology yet. So what do you folks use for transcribing? 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:16.000 We use Descript if we're like editing. So we'll use that for like, you know, often with like, not so much with chat shows, but with podcasts where there's like a lot of interviews coming into one episode. 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:20.336 Like we'll use Descript so that we just have like a quick transcript of something. 00:27:20.336 --> 00:27:32.576 Because usually we'll remember the quote. And so then we'll like copy and paste it so that we can bring it over. And then to actually like transcribed for like the published episode, we have real live humans. 00:27:32.576 --> 00:27:46.864 Oh, yeah? With no assistance from tools? They don't. They don't use Descript. Well, I mean, they're welcome to use Descript and then edit it, but most of them find it faster to just transcribe. So I'm curious, when they do the transcription, do they listen and... 00:27:46.864 --> 00:27:57.231 type at the same time? Do they have to slow down? Do they have to come back? Like how much time does it take to transcribe one hour of audio? So I ask this all the time, but we have... 00:27:57.231 --> 00:28:14.240 four transcribers and all of them do it differently. The coolest one, who actually doesn't work with us anymore, but she used to have a pedal, like almost like a sewing machine type thing under her desk that would... take, I think it was like 30 seconds and then loop it. 00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:28.624 So it'd be 30 seconds on loop, like slowed down. And then when she hit the pedal, it'll go to the next 30 seconds and do that. And yeah, it was really cool. So apparently there are like tools like this, but she liked the pedal instead of using her hand so that she could focus on typing. I thought that was really cool. 00:28:28.624 --> 00:28:38.880 That is so cool because one of the things that I struggle with a lot when I do the audio editing myself, like slightly on a tangent here, is my fist, my hand starts to hurt. 00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:52.559 I guess of the RSI, you know, the repeated stress injury, when I use like a trackpad or a mouse or even a keyboard, like if I do it for multiple hours, it just starts to hurt because of this micro movement. I could deploy some pedals to help me there. 00:28:52.559 --> 00:29:04.991 Yeah, like move the cursor, punch the pedal and then whatever piece of audio gets cut out. I do think those those like stress. I don't know. I used to get that all the time, but they go away after a while. 00:29:04.991 --> 00:29:18.096 I don't get them anymore. I mean, I'm not editing nearly as much anymore, but I don't get them anymore. I will say like certain, I mean, you probably have this too if you code, like certain keys on your laptop are just like completely like have no like. 00:29:18.096 --> 00:29:29.344 letter or anything on them anymore there's a part of my space bar that has like basically worn away because that's what i used to like toggle play on and off i mean that's interesting 00:29:29.344 --> 00:29:40.400 So you have no more joints in your hands. It's just like all fluid matter. Yeah, it's all just fluid matter, blobby fingers. 00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:52.799 Got to do lots of like grip strength exercises. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I wonder if you can stay with this for a moment. I've been playing guitar for like 20 years or so. 00:29:52.799 --> 00:30:04.847 I've always had these issues with, like, RSI, you know, the repeated stress injury, due to, like, overplaying, not taking enough breaks, maybe being too tense just in general, and then, like... 00:30:04.847 --> 00:30:17.567 I would have to go, actually, once I had to go to a doctor and he injected, I think it was lidocaine or novocaine into my fist to relax the muscle because it just got stuck and it wouldn't relax. 00:30:17.567 --> 00:30:32.496 It was after like, whatever, I don't know, five hours of playing the guitar without breaks or something. So I'm curious if you have any tips for people who actually do have repeat stress injury when they do audio production or any kind of... I mean, I have one of those little... 00:30:32.496 --> 00:30:46.672 spiky balls that i use you know those like things but i just do that because it feels good work less yeah work less that's probably it i mean i don't know if this is healthy but i can always crack my fingers just like from like yes 00:30:47.023 --> 00:30:59.056 Like my fingers just like will crack if I bend them, which I'm like, that's probably not good. But here we are. I do not have any tips. Work less. 00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:06.384 Maybe stretch your fingers if that's a thing. Yeah, I guess take breaks. Switch it up. Maybe switch between like a... 00:31:06.384 --> 00:31:20.336 like a trackpad and a keyboard or a mouse and a keyboard and then like your laptop computer. Yeah, I'm actually curious when you do the editing in Logic, do you have any keyboard shortcuts that help you be more effective? 00:31:20.336 --> 00:31:34.751 What are the most common actions that you shortcut on the keyboard? Oh my god, I feel like I have to open a session to know how to do that. You can customize a lot of it. It's so ingrained in me that I'm like, what do I do? Exactly. 00:31:34.751 --> 00:31:49.519 Yeah. Ilya, I couldn't tell you what I do. It's like, now by having you think about that, we will destroy your muscle memory. I'm not even sure. I mean, yeah, I have to open. I will open a session just to see. 00:31:49.711 --> 00:31:56.367 There's also shortcuts that you can do in your preferences so that... 00:31:56.367 --> 00:32:08.160 You know, for example, if you like merge two tracks that they automatically crossfade into each other or don't or like fade separately, like you can set that all up. I usually. 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:22.640 I mean, this is not really a shortcut, but I always set my left click to the scissors so that I'm like cutting. I can go through and chop. Like, I don't know what my shortcuts are. And now my fan is going on my computer because I opened that. So I'm going to close that quickly. 00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:34.223 Yeah, one thing I tried to experiment with is like I would press whatever command one and it would remove half a second from the track and then also jump a couple of seconds. 00:32:34.223 --> 00:32:47.776 before and start playing so i can hear like how it sounds what i cut you know at the end of the day like i created so many shortcuts i got lost in them and i ended up not using almost any of them yeah i think 00:32:47.776 --> 00:33:02.672 I think I have my commands are all for me just like visualizers. If I do like command one, command two, command three, command four, it's like different views. Got it. So coming back to the original question, when you said that you can edit, let's say, riches... 00:33:02.672 --> 00:33:22.064 Rich is the host, co-host of PostLight. Audio without listening to it. What are the things that you... look for and you remove from from his speech to be clear i do not do that with rich but i listen through and then i cut stuff but um excuse me 00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:36.240 Normally we cut exactly what I did. Excuse me is that kind of stuff. Rich is interesting. I know his voice. So he does like certain things before he starts a sentence when he's thinking where he'll sort of. 00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:50.304 stay on the same word so he'll say the same word like three times and then go into the sentence so i'll usually cut those cuts ums you talked about this one in the episode itself like i i i something like yeah yeah like stutter 00:33:50.304 --> 00:34:05.104 I'm so sorry, Rich. Rich, you're the best. Well, if Rich is listening to this, I think we've made it. No, but everybody talks like that when you're in a chat kind of podcast, right? Yeah, you just do that. 00:34:05.104 --> 00:34:16.800 You said when you're in the chat, so I would have cut one of your when-years. Yeah. I find stutters to be pretty difficult to cut because sometimes people stutter. 00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:23.791 like so quickly that when you say like if they say i i i you know five times and you only leave the last one 00:34:23.791 --> 00:34:37.536 it actually sounds unnatural. So sometimes it's better to leave the stutter in than to cut it out to keep it still kind of sound as if it's a person talking, not a, you know, deep fake. Yeah. Similar. 00:34:37.536 --> 00:34:53.135 Like if there's like an emotional moment or, you know, sort of a stressful moment, you'll want to keep them in too because those are things that naturally people... put in when they're finding it hard to find words and if you take them out kind of makes a person sound like an asshole so 00:34:53.135 --> 00:35:07.887 got to leave those ones into how about breaths do you cut breaths do you like lower their volume because i don't think i've heard any breaths i think rich and paul they don't breathe on the podcast um i'm trying to think with rich and paul 00:35:08.592 --> 00:35:21.679 Paul has some breaths that we reduce and rich. It's kind of a mix. It depends on the type of breath, right? If it's just like a overall like. 00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:35.552 Like when someone else is talking, we'll cut that. I mean, we'll reduce that so that it's like trained throughout the whole thing. But if it's like, you know, someone's heavy breathing in the middle of their sentences and it's distracting, then we'll cut it. 00:35:35.552 --> 00:35:45.760 Usually if you cut the breath, you need more space, right? Because it sounds unnatural if you cut it and then don't put the space in. So it's hard to say. 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:53.119 So for people who are starting out podcasting and they don't have like a amazing editing. 00:35:53.119 --> 00:36:07.472 company or editor to help out. What are the kind of starting off tips you could offer? Yeah, I mean, there's so much stuff online. So I think just like get curious and start digging around. There's so many YouTube tutorials on like you. 00:36:07.472 --> 00:36:17.775 different software and starting out. So I think that's always a good place to start. If you have a bit of money, I would invest in. 00:36:18.255 --> 00:36:29.728 a DAW, whatever one's cheapest, they're all great. Audacity is where most people start because it's free and it's open source, but it has huge limitations. 00:36:29.728 --> 00:36:42.335 I think if you do have like 100 bucks to invest, I would buy a DAW. Like a Reaper. Reaper is 60 bucks. Yeah, I love Reaper too. It's great. Good for live stuff too. So yeah, there's a lot of different options out there. I would just sort of... 00:36:42.335 --> 00:36:57.248 get curious and start playing around. And no one is like, I mean, I always say this. So we have, you know, 10 people on our team, whatever. We all use different software. We all use the same software differently. Like there's no right. 00:36:57.248 --> 00:37:11.615 way to edit you know there are there are things that you can do that will make it easier if you're collaborating with someone else on the same project similar to coding but there there's no right way to do it and anyone who tells you that there is is just 00:37:11.615 --> 00:37:25.264 being pretentious like so i i think just like curiosity and then like get in there and start playing around like there's a lot of fun things that you can do and a lot of fun you can have just by like fiddling around with the technology 00:37:25.264 --> 00:37:35.295 And then my only other advice is to buy a good pair of headphones. Yeah, for sure. They make a lot of difference. So one thing I must say is... 00:37:35.295 --> 00:37:47.215 I wanted to start a podcast for a while. I finally started my podcast about a year and a half ago or so. And one of the reasons why I was procrastinating so much... 00:37:47.248 --> 00:38:00.335 is like when you listen to well-produced podcasts, like Post Light is a very well-produced podcast. Let's just take it for example. Like Rich Ziyadi, his speech, like when you listen to him on the record, 00:38:00.335 --> 00:38:09.360 His speech is so clear, so articulate. It almost feels like he's a genius of talking, of expressing his thoughts. 00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:22.559 But then, like, you listen to the podcast 300, where you say, like, oh, Rich, actually, you, like, stutter, and your mouth clicks and whatever, right? And then I realized, well, this guy actually isn't perfect, but he almost, like, made... 00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:36.943 I mean, obviously he's like very smart and very articulate. He speaks really, really well. I don't want to diminish that. But there are things that we don't hear as listeners. So it almost creates like an effect. You know, like they say that those ads where you have all these kind of skinny girls, you know, that make... 00:38:36.943 --> 00:38:46.143 You know, teenagers kind of almost like commit suicide and stuff, right? Because they cannot be that, right? And like Instagram creates the same problem. So for... 00:38:46.143 --> 00:38:58.976 beginner podcasters, that might also create, I guess, a bit of a barrier, like listening to those well-produced shows and like, oh my God, how can I talk to Tim Ferriss or somebody like that? And then you look at those different videos. 00:38:58.976 --> 00:39:12.639 Like you said, there are so many of them. And then there is like a two-hour video for like how to use compression. And then you just like get lost, like minute five. So yeah, I'm curious, what is that bare minimum? 00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:19.936 you would say a podcaster would need to do to just get their first episode out? I think... 00:39:19.936 --> 00:39:33.423 Just do it. Honestly, the first the first one is always you're always going to look back on past work and be embarrassed by it because no matter what you do, you're going to learn. Right. And I'm like a huge learn through doing person. 00:39:33.423 --> 00:39:48.320 I don't watch YouTube tutorials. I don't read like how to books. Like I'm like, I'm going to get in there and I'm going to try to solve the problem. And I'm going to like, I'm going to tinker around until I figure it out. Sometimes I'll like watch something or read something to get me started. But I'm a very like. 00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:58.831 hands-on person so sorry i mean like nobody's listening to the first episode anyway so just go ahead and do that i i love that 00:39:58.831 --> 00:40:11.215 Yeah, that's yeah, maybe that's true. But yeah, I think get in there. Like, you know, the the point of entry or like the moment where you're like psyching yourself out is like the most harmful thing. You know, that's just your. 00:40:11.215 --> 00:40:25.936 your bruised ego and stuff talking, right? But really like anyone, you can do anything you put your mind to. So I'm within reason within podcasting. So I guess just like get started. I think you can buy, you know, a microphone, some headphones and some equipment. 00:40:25.936 --> 00:40:39.695 and get started there if you want to go beyond that and get into plugins like compression i would say like the three things that you could learn how to use are like a compressor an eq and a noise gate 00:40:39.695 --> 00:40:54.271 So that's what I would start with. But beyond that, I mean, the world is your oyster. Once you get started, you'll probably think it's fun and then end up down like some weird rabbit holes and end up like making like really cool music or something out of people's voices. 00:40:54.271 --> 00:41:02.320 Go for it. And hit me up if you have any questions. Speaking of your background, you said that you had... 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:11.695 background in sound engineering. How did you get there? You were born and then you became a sound engineer. What happened in between? 00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:24.992 I was born. I actually I was in music school. So I started in music. And this is when you were in Montreal. So I was in high school in Toronto. 00:41:24.992 --> 00:41:39.983 And I went to like an arts high school and then I went to college and I took I mean, now looking back, I'm like, oh, yeah, obviously I took the degrees for podcasting. But at the time I was just going to school. I didn't like podcasts weren't even a thing. 00:41:39.983 --> 00:41:54.288 But I took two arts degrees. So I have like a music degree in something called electroacoustics, which is where I learned a lot about like recording and different sound profiles and that kind of stuff. And then I have I did a degree. 00:41:54.288 --> 00:42:05.023 or double majored in creative writing. So I wrote a lot of scripts and I was writing a lot, which now I'm like, oh yeah, I use both of those skills almost every day. 00:42:05.023 --> 00:42:12.208 But at the time, I just wanted to be an artist. So I was just making stuff. And yeah, I think that sort of... 00:42:12.688 --> 00:42:25.456 I was really afraid of performing. Like I hated performing in front of people. So maybe my second year of college, I started getting more into like the production, like back end stuff. 00:42:25.456 --> 00:42:38.255 I'm just kind of a nerd. So I really got into it. And then after college, I worked, you know, a million jobs, but I worked one for this marketing firm and I ran. 00:42:38.255 --> 00:42:52.384 their podcasts and video productions. And I just didn't like my boss. So I left and I started freelancing. In between, if I'm correct, I think I saw on your LinkedIn, you were a music teacher, bartender. 00:42:52.384 --> 00:43:05.728 like these are one of the these are a few of those million jobs in between i guess oh yeah i work i bartended at a million places i was a server at a million places i was a barista yeah i taught music at like uh 00:43:05.728 --> 00:43:27.423 at camps i taught music at after school programs in montreal i am i was a nanny for a bit i've done it all cool So the previous guests on our show, they mentioned in one of their own podcasts, not on our show, that working in service industry really... 00:43:27.423 --> 00:43:42.335 helps you build the empathy for the people. And now, reflecting on what they said and what you just said, probably being a bartender helps you being a better editor of speech because you better understand a conversation, right? 00:43:42.335 --> 00:43:56.239 Maybe. Yeah, I think. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm. Yeah. Being a bartender taught me to be pretty brutal. But yeah, I think I'm I'm very good at cutting people off and very good at. 00:43:56.239 --> 00:44:04.976 you know, being politely rude. Did you also live and work in Yukon in between? I'm just asking because I've... 00:44:04.976 --> 00:44:17.103 I don't think I've met anybody so far who actually worked and lived in Yukon, so that was pretty interesting, I thought. Where is Yukon? Please enlighten me. It's up by Alaska. Okay. 00:44:17.168 --> 00:44:31.088 It's above Vancouver. So if you just keep driving straight north, you'll hit the Yukon. For a few days, I guess. It's a territory that is Canada's most west coast territory. 00:44:31.088 --> 00:44:40.639 But yes, I lived there for a bit. I loved it. It was like a life-changing experience. I mean, I'm honestly surprised I didn't go back because it was so like... 00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:55.023 such a like captivating place and community that I wanted to. But I did know that if I went back, I would probably be there forever. So I didn't go. What were like, were you in Whitehorse or one of those bigger towns there? I was in Dawson City. 00:44:55.023 --> 00:45:08.304 which is pretty like i mean i was gonna say famous it's not famous it's a very small town but um a lot of people know it because it's like where the gold rush was it's like a historic town so there's like 00:45:08.304 --> 00:45:17.615 very like old timey vibes everything is like about the gold rush there's like a huge tourist community that comes in um mostly through like 00:45:17.615 --> 00:45:30.063 cruises and stuff so there's a lot of people that come in on their way to alaska and so in the summertime they need people to be there to work the tourist industry so that's why i went up i mean maybe that's not why i went but that's 00:45:30.063 --> 00:45:42.976 I knew I would get a job because I knew they needed people up there. And yeah, it was so fun. I mean, it's 24 hours of daylight. It's just like a wild, wild time. 00:45:42.976 --> 00:45:54.576 producers or sound engineers. I'm curious, like what's that kind of process? How do you find the right balance? Especially maybe like if you... 00:45:54.576 --> 00:46:05.152 don't work with like a full suite, you know, super professional company, but more like a freelancer, right? Because I had some experiences where 00:46:05.152 --> 00:46:19.952 you know like i send the file uh things get edited i get them back i listen i make notes send it back listen to it again it's a lot of effort so and i've been always kind of wondering is there a more effective 00:46:19.952 --> 00:46:33.920 way to do that because with audio you can't skim it you have to like listen to it at like one x speed and it's very inefficient so i'm curious if you have any tips there for working with uh with producers yeah i think the first 00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:44.047 thing to do is to like work with a producer who understands what you want to be making and like get clear on that from the beginning because 00:46:44.047 --> 00:46:58.623 The less notes that you have to go in and give, the better. So I think always when you do, sorry, when you do the first episode with someone, there's going to be more back and forth because the editor will be like more nervous about making cuts. 00:46:58.623 --> 00:47:03.952 And you'll be like trying to explain the sound more. Once you get that first episode, like... 00:47:03.952 --> 00:47:14.143 At least with us, usually it's smooth sailing from there. I don't think most of our clients listen to the podcast that we make for them. Wow, that's so much trust. Yeah, I would say you also have to have a level of... 00:47:14.143 --> 00:47:29.056 trust established I don't think you can get there like after one episode I think it probably takes like you know six or seven but I think trust is a huge part of it I know that like especially when we work with like brands or corporate 00:47:29.056 --> 00:47:44.623 clients like a big reason that they work with us instead of other podcast production companies is because we have like we're like a mission driven company so they know that we won't put out anything that's like potentially harmful to anyone um because we don't want it so 00:47:44.623 --> 00:47:58.655 I mean, that already establishes like a level of trust. And then you have to just sort of get on the same page about the content and where to make those cuts. But usually, like, that can be established pretty quickly. Got it. Please tell us more about the mission part. 00:47:58.655 --> 00:48:11.728 as I said, went to school for, you know, music stuff and production. And I was one of two non cisgendered men. And that is a lot. 00:48:11.728 --> 00:48:24.943 So I think, you know, I always have thought like, oh, I wonder what I would be doing if there wasn't that like judgment or like fear or inadequacy or whatever. 00:48:24.943 --> 00:48:35.056 And I am trying to make the pathways into audio and production and podcasting more accessible to people that... 00:48:35.056 --> 00:48:46.496 may you know not traditionally be represented so we do a few things like we see it from both sides we see it as like the talent like we want to have more talent on shows that are like people of color you know 00:48:46.496 --> 00:49:00.992 marginalized genders like anything that like we're not seeing um in the talent pool right now we're trying to get booked and we're trying to get creating our own shows and then we also see it in the production side so it's like people that are like in the studios learning about recording you know 00:49:00.992 --> 00:49:10.784 learning about editing, all that stuff. So our team's entirely made up of people from different marginalized identities. And we try to do like trainings and... 00:49:10.784 --> 00:49:18.880 workshops and give money to organizations in our communities that are also helping people. So I think it's pretty cool. 00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:32.463 It is. How does somebody like apply to your company? And what do you mean about the training? Is it like a boot camp kind of process or? We have like a community outreach forum. So every like newsletter we put out, we feature different. 00:49:32.463 --> 00:49:46.288 podcasters so if you wanted to get you know your show some free promotion we could hook up there you can fill out our application form and I can send you a link to put in the show notes and then other than that like we partner with 00:49:46.288 --> 00:49:59.967 people all the time to create shows like people who wouldn't be able to afford our services or aren't huge you know corporations we funnel some of the money from the branded work we do into creating productions with 00:49:59.967 --> 00:50:14.271 people and they become edit audio originals so if you know that's you get in touch with us hook us up if you want to work with us like work with edit audio work for edit audio just follow us on socials we always post when we're hiring and we have a 00:50:14.271 --> 00:50:27.664 pretty cool application process. And then also, like, I'm nice. So if you just want to chat, you can message me whenever. But yeah, we do have like some pretty cool mentorship programs and stuff coming up in 2023. 00:50:27.664 --> 00:50:32.192 Follow us and stay tuned. Speaking about the originals, yeah, we were... 00:50:32.192 --> 00:50:44.400 I knew you primarily from the PostLite podcast and also you mentioned Stack Overflow and those Google radio stations. But then I was looking at your website. Yeah, you do have maybe five, six, seven originals. 00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:57.072 Tell us more about the originals. I guess how you came up with that idea and what goals do those originals serve for you as a company? Yeah, I mean, it sort of started in the pandemic because I think a lot of people were... 00:50:57.168 --> 00:51:03.231 laying people off and often you know the budgets that get cut from client like corporate 00:51:03.231 --> 00:51:15.920 clients is like marketing first so podcasting usually falls under marketing so you know we kind of were like okay we're gonna lose a lot of work we have to be prepared for that but I was like I don't want my team to feel 00:51:15.983 --> 00:51:26.623 demoralized or like they don't have things to work on like it's already such a crap time so we started pitching ideas I was like let's all like let's make something together you know 00:51:26.623 --> 00:51:39.215 that we can do so we started pitching different ideas of shows that we wanted to make on the team and that's how it started and since then we've been growing it to like partner with other people who want to make shows that like 00:51:39.215 --> 00:51:51.807 Yeah, aren't big corporate clients. And like unsurprisingly, they do very well because I think they're, you know, podcasts that we're all really excited about. Our true crime podcast. 00:51:51.807 --> 00:52:06.096 like has over, I don't know, one and a half million downloads or something. And it's being shopped around right now for TV, which is really exciting. And then our podcast date with daddy was like a experimental. 00:52:06.096 --> 00:52:15.920 queer, you know, non-binary dating, like sex and relationships podcast. 00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:29.728 And it did super well. It got nominated for an Ambie. So I think it's whatever, whatever we're putting our energy towards, it seems to be like there's an audience out there for people that really want to listen to that content. So that's cool to see. 00:52:29.728 --> 00:52:44.576 So I'm curious, now that you mentioned the word sex, do we have to mark this podcast as explicit? I'm just curious, because we haven't started publishing yet. So what counts as explicit, what doesn't? Because they talk about the child audiences and stuff. 00:52:44.576 --> 00:52:59.344 i think i think you're asking more more for like for podcasters how do you know when do you have to uh like mark an episode as explicit yeah yeah and i'm just using hours yeah as a uh i guess as a case study 00:52:59.344 --> 00:53:10.735 I would say that like I would always veer on the side of being cautious, right? Like you don't want a kid to stumble on something that could be potentially harmful. I mean, I listening to this now. 00:53:10.735 --> 00:53:25.072 if i'm thinking back on our conversation i would probably mark this as explicit but less because i mentioned sex more because you mentioned suicide at some point oh that's a good point yeah so so i would mark this as explicit or i would put a warning at the top but 00:53:25.199 --> 00:53:38.639 I don't really think it matters so much anymore. I used to think that like marking something as explicit made it so that less people would find it. But like your audience for the show isn't 12 year olds. So. Right. Right. Right. 00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:52.943 You know, when I was a kid, I would actually look for that explicit lyrics sticker. And I would love to listen to those albums in particular as a teenager. I remember when they would have like CD releases and they'd have the explicit one and then the non-explicit. 00:53:52.943 --> 00:54:04.527 one and i would always be like oh i'm gonna try to get the one with the e on it i think it almost became like a marketing marketing technique towards the end totally totally 00:54:04.527 --> 00:54:17.215 So coming back to the original shows, I personally, I love the well-adjusting one. I think it's by Robin. She also works. She or they also work with your team, I think. Okay. 00:54:17.215 --> 00:54:30.927 and specifically the one on promotions that was like so cool to hear like different perspectives and it kind of really jives with me um and i immediately told ilia about it too yeah 00:54:30.927 --> 00:54:45.519 But yeah, the original shows are great. Aw, thank you. We love Robin. We love Well Adjusting. She doesn't work for Edit Audio, to be clear. She's the host of the show, but she's an amazing producer. She's worked all over as a producer. 00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:53.936 And I love her. So for the original shows, are they the same, like your editors and... 00:54:53.936 --> 00:55:07.856 Other people that are working for Edit Audio, they're doing it? Or is it like collaboration with other people like Robin? It's kind of a mix of both. So people internally can pitch and then we do some partnerships with people that are outside of the company as well. 00:55:07.856 --> 00:55:20.224 Most of the time we're partnering with people who don't do the editing stuff. So that usually stays on our side. Do those shows bring back business to the company? Like more clients? 00:55:20.224 --> 00:55:27.791 I don't think so, no. No, not really. 00:55:27.791 --> 00:55:38.096 Maybe just through brand awareness, but not directly. In a way, the variety of the original shows that you have also shows the... 00:55:38.096 --> 00:55:50.480 Like you have narrative style, like the true crime one, right? Like that's really well produced with music and all that coming in all the time versus like some chat style podcast that you have. And it kind of shows. 00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:59.840 your expertise in editing or producing all sorts of shows. So yeah. Oh, thanks. Yeah. And they're good in terms of like. 00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:13.728 you know, when there are shows and not client facing, we sort of work on our own time schedule. So they're also good for us to like, learn as a team and find out new ways that we can collaborate together as a team, right? If someone doesn't have experience. 00:56:13.728 --> 00:56:27.920 Yeah, let's just stick with that example, doing sound design. You know, we can create our own original series and that can be like their baby to like work on their sound design skills. So it can serve as like a great tool for us as well. And they're fun. 00:56:28.784 --> 00:56:40.911 Speaking about music, you just mentioned music. How do you... Yeah, I guess I must compliment Postlet again, because the way the music is done there... 00:56:40.911 --> 00:56:53.807 I just love it so much. I wanted to replicate that. I wasn't able to, because whatever I would come up with, it just sounded like a replica of Buzz Light, so I had to do something else. But that music is just so... 00:56:53.840 --> 00:57:05.711 spot on so I'm curious it is just absolutely perfect like yeah like for those who are listening to us if you haven't listened to Spotlight just pull any episode and listen to the intro music it's just so 00:57:06.063 --> 00:57:20.688 Yeah. Yeah, then it goes into this kind of when drums, the percussion enters, and then they start talking. Yeah, actually, we replicate some of that conceptually. But how do you think about music? When you have to produce a new show, what's your process about coming up with music? 00:57:20.688 --> 00:57:33.215 I mean, it really depends on the type of show it is. Like even last week, we have a show that's coming out that's like with a HGTV celebrity named Mina AF. 00:57:33.215 --> 00:57:44.239 You know, we were working on the trailer for it and trying out different music options. And we sort of conceptualized it as having like a 80s or 90s, like hip hop type sound. 00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:56.639 But everything we came up with where we're like, I don't know, it wasn't perfect. It wasn't perfect. It wasn't perfect. I think we did like 15 different ones. This is for the theme song, by the way. And eventually. 00:57:56.639 --> 00:58:10.864 We ended up trying out like more like poppy, like sort of like Taylor Swift vibe music. And it was like immediately clear which one was supposed to be the theme music. 00:58:10.864 --> 00:58:25.168 I mean, there's an example of sometimes you conceptualize something, but in actuality, it doesn't fit. So I think you kind of have to get to know the talent and the vibe of the show that you're trying to create. With a narrative-style podcast, it's a lot different, right? 00:58:25.168 --> 00:58:37.264 creating atmosphere with those sounds more than anything. But even still, like you want the music to feel connected and like part of the same experience. So I think still there's like... 00:58:37.264 --> 00:58:48.224 We usually create playlists or libraries for each show of different songs that we use. And where do you get the songs from? We use a music licensing company called APM. 00:58:48.224 --> 00:58:57.007 And they have like a bunch of different artists and different music libraries that you can go into. That's what we primarily use. 00:58:57.135 --> 00:59:09.599 And then every once in a while, we'll get a composer or someone from SoundCloud that we found, and we'll message them. It really depends. But primarily, we use APM. Cool. So if you can... 00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:23.487 Talk a little bit about the money aspect of things. So if you work with the producer, what is that range of services and their costs that a podcaster could expect to pay? 00:59:23.487 --> 00:59:37.775 from like i don't know just do the sound quality kind of engineering for me to like full suite be with me in the studio and do the scheduling like everything everything everything i think anywhere from like i mean those are very different things right so this is going to sound like a 00:59:37.775 --> 00:59:47.344 absolutely bananas range but like anywhere from you know $350 an episode to like $15,000 an episode. 00:59:47.344 --> 00:59:54.079 Like schedule and everything is probably more like lots of editing. 15,000 would be like more of a narrative type show. 00:59:54.079 --> 01:00:08.496 where there's like a lot of production that goes into it and like music and stuff like that yeah got it uh so if you take something like more more simple like like an interview like something like we are doing right now so like if you needed to like you know cut that you know add the music but if you 01:00:08.496 --> 01:00:20.367 Also, let's say, handle scheduling for us and publishing and coming up with titles and artwork. What's that range? It depends. So if you're a more consistent client. 01:00:20.367 --> 01:00:34.864 we usually give a discount so if it's something that's publishing weekly we'll and you know you guarantee like 24 episodes or something 48 episodes a year then we'll give like a bit of a of a like cost break 01:00:34.864 --> 01:00:47.103 But I mean, hourly, like if you look at a podcast, a good way to like budget for it, anything that like, there's like the one and a half rule. So any, anything that you. 01:00:47.103 --> 01:01:01.952 So if this is, you know, an hour in length, it's going to take someone like two and a half to three hours to edit. So I would base any hourly projections off that. When we charged hourly, I charged $350 an hour. 01:01:01.952 --> 01:01:14.960 But I would say if you're getting like scheduling and all that and you're consistent, probably like, I don't know, under like a thousand ish dollars an episode, maybe seven to fifteen hundred. Where is there like a marketplace? 01:01:14.960 --> 01:01:26.400 I don't know of a marketplace. I do know air. Like there's a community called air that does like a rates guide that you can look at if you're like an editor or producer and you're not sure what to charge. 01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:33.503 Also, always happy to talk to people about that stuff just to make sure that everyone's getting paid fairly. So if you have questions about that. 01:01:33.503 --> 01:01:46.063 You can also message me. I think we should start wrapping this up. The question we wanted to ask you, because you've seen so many podcasts and, you know, work with so many people, what were some of the more... 01:01:46.063 --> 01:02:00.032 memorable, you know, delightful moments during the recording that you have. You don't need to name the names, just share some good stories. Or name the names if you'd like to. 01:02:00.032 --> 01:02:12.384 I loved recording with Paul and Rich, like always. They're always so funny. And I love just like hearing their banter with each other. So those were always fun for me whenever they were in person. My most like... 01:02:12.384 --> 01:02:26.608 scary moment I worked with Jane Fonda once and that was very terrifying for me so that's like my proudest moment because I'm like like I was like idolizing her and I had to like mic her and stuff for an event and 01:02:26.831 --> 01:02:33.007 I just I still can't believe I did it. You know, I'm like still so that's my like proudest moment. 01:02:33.007 --> 01:02:45.423 I've had a lot of fun with people. Like when we go into studios, especially to do like voiceover work or when we need pickups, you know, I try to like get the energy up. I've made like some celebrities do like silly dances or like little. 01:02:45.423 --> 01:02:54.911 exercises with me, which is always fun. Feels like we're in like summer camp or something. I don't know if they're all fun. I really like recording with Robin too. She's hilarious. 01:02:54.911 --> 01:03:09.199 and mina this new person we're working with we always have we always joke that the like 10 minutes before we actually start recording are like the best part of the podcast because they're so funny it's always just like me mina and megan a producer on our team like shooting the shit it's always 01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:22.831 ridiculous so that makes it fun makes it fun to work with like i actually like like everyone that works on my team so it makes it pretty fun to go into any recording actually when you first 01:03:23.023 --> 01:03:34.943 meet someone and record, let's say record an interview episode with someone and people don't know each other. Like actually in our case, like we didn't really know each other except for that short email exchange. I think there is always a bit of that. 01:03:34.943 --> 01:03:48.815 a few minutes of awkwardness before people really find that kind of adjust to each other, I guess. I certainly felt some of that in the beginning. Do you have any tips for how to... 01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:59.952 like approach yeah somebody you don't know yeah i think it it is like helpful to have if you have like a separate producer that can come on to do the like background stuff 01:03:59.952 --> 01:04:07.407 We always start every recording with like a preamble that like, you know, we're not out to get you. Anything gets edited in post. So if you want to start the. 01:04:07.407 --> 01:04:16.159 like answer over again, or if you stumble or you, you know, you realize that you don't want to like release someone's name, you can always just like say that in the recording. We'll make sure to cut it. 01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:27.552 We always ask people for their like name and pronouns twice, once at the beginning and once at the end, just so we can make sure if we're like recording anything after that references them that we're saying it correctly. And then. 01:04:27.552 --> 01:04:40.639 If you are just like an awkward bean, I find, you know, like rapid fire questions. Sometimes we'll start an interview with rapid fire questions and completely like throw them out, like just as a way to break the ice. 01:04:40.639 --> 01:04:48.000 Like, we don't actually publish them. We just use them as, like, a tool to, like, get people out of their shell. That's very cool. Yeah, we try to have, like... 01:04:48.000 --> 01:05:01.199 pre-calls with people but then everybody's just so busy it's so hard to get on people's calendars and then i think at some point we just gave up on that pre-calls are important if you're like trying to get like specific 01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:15.632 You know, like if you're working on a narrative show and you need Bob to talk about like this one year when he was dating John, then like you have to have that prequel to be like, this is what we want to talk about. It needs to be focused around this. These are the questions we're going to talk about. 01:05:15.632 --> 01:05:27.552 But I think if it's a casual style conversation, they don't need it as much. So one other thing that we always ask everybody is what gear they use. I think you're using the Shure mic, Shure SM7B, is that right? 01:05:27.552 --> 01:05:36.096 Yeah, I switch it up right now. I'm using the Shure SM7B. I have a... 01:05:36.096 --> 01:05:48.447 Or a mic stand. Wouldn't normally use this one on my desk. I actually broke my desk mic stand. That's why this one's like a bit tall for me. I'm plugged into just a little Scarlett Focusrite mixer. 01:05:48.447 --> 01:06:02.768 I have the best headphones in the world, which are Bayer Dynamic headphones. At this point, I think Bayer Dynamic should just like sponsor me because I literally have bought headphones for every single... I've converted 99% of the world to Bayer Dynamic. 01:06:02.768 --> 01:06:13.007 headphones. When I mix on speakers, I use Genelecs. They're great speakers. What else do I use? I'm using a Mac. Anything else you want to know? 01:06:14.512 --> 01:06:26.831 No, no. The interesting thing about gear, right? Because those people who are listening to this, they can compare your Shure SM7B, which is the golden standard for broadcasting and recording. I have a Shure... 01:06:26.831 --> 01:06:41.199 MV7, which is a kind of younger sibling of your mic. And then Arnab uses a Blue Yeti mic. And then some of my previous recordings, I also used SM58 from Shure as well. So yeah, just like comparing those mics, comparing how they sound. 01:06:41.199 --> 01:06:46.992 I love a 58. I have 95,000 SM58s. 01:06:46.992 --> 01:07:00.847 You know, there was a joke about, so, you know, I worked with somebody who used to work for Shure. And he said, there was a running joke at the Shure, at the manufacturing company. Like, there was like an earthquake, the entire city gets demolished. What do you find? 01:07:00.847 --> 01:07:10.527 in all of the trouble. A bunch of SM58s. Oh, for sure. I have one that has like a dent in the top. It must have been from like when I... 01:07:10.527 --> 01:07:26.704 you know did more like music performing stuff i have no idea how it's dented but it still works perfectly yeah they're indestructible they're indestructible they're great they have great sound too I'm curious how you know they're indestructible, Ilya. 01:07:26.704 --> 01:07:41.615 Well, just watch like a Green Day show or something where you have this guy, like whatever, like waving that mic, you know, on the cable and then it would like smash somewhere and then he picks it up and continues to sing it into that mic. That's what these mics are. They're made for like wild concert shows. 01:07:41.615 --> 01:07:49.599 Yeah, like I must have dropped like an amp or something on mine because I have no idea how it would have dented otherwise. But great mics. 01:07:49.599 --> 01:08:00.512 Plus, I like blow through microphones just from like traveling with them and stuff. And those ones never break. It's always the like other ones that break. Cool. Right. Steph, where can people find you? 01:08:00.512 --> 01:08:14.896 Uh, anywhere you can find me on Twitter at Steph underscore Colburn. You can find my company there as well. I did audio companies on Instagram, TikTok, all the places you want to find us. Or if you want to just hit me up, you can email me at. 01:08:14.896 --> 01:08:25.680 Steph at edit audio. So that's Steph, S-T-P-H at E-D-I-T-A-U-D dot I-O. Yeah. And. 01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:34.448 What's your favorite podcast? What are you listening to right now? I actually am listening this morning. I started listening to this podcast. 01:08:34.448 --> 01:08:47.391 articles of interest they it was a show that was out a while ago but they just brought it back so i haven't started it yet but it's a great great show that i used to love that now is back and i think it's uh independently produced now 01:08:47.391 --> 01:08:56.192 Which is cool. What's it about? It's like I weirdly met. I have to look up the person's name that runs it because I actually know. So cut this. 01:08:56.192 --> 01:09:09.055 It used to be 99% invisible. Who does it now? Yeah. Avery Truffleman. So now Avery is producing it independently, but it, it basically talks about like clothing as a way into like. 01:09:09.055 --> 01:09:23.583 other conversations so like it'll talk about like a pair of you know plaid pants as a way to like then start talking about like environmentalism or like you know how 01:09:23.583 --> 01:09:37.680 queer culture shows themselves in society. So it's really cool. It's a great show. Very well done. Steph, it was great having you on the recording. Thanks for having me on the show. Oh, also, if anyone's going to a podcast show, 01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:48.800 London. I'll be there too. So thank you all for listening. You can subscribe to us on any podcasting app that you use, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, anywhere. 01:09:48.800 --> 01:10:03.184 And we also have a Substack newsletter that you can find at metacastpodcast.com. That's where we publish our takeaways from the recordings and also announce all of the new episodes. See you later.