WEBVTT 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:11.500 The other thing I think he does is he's normalizing a lot of things that you don't expect in super hit comic books. 00:00:11.500 --> 00:00:17.760 Like the squiggly lettering, or he just makes mistakes and cuts them and rewrites them. 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:19.720 Just like what we do with our podcast, right? 00:00:19.720 --> 00:00:21.140 Yeah, exactly. 00:00:21.140 --> 00:00:25.880 But he shows the world, and especially kids, that it's okay, right? 00:00:25.880 --> 00:00:26.680 That's how you start. 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:45.640 Hey, this is a special bonus episode, because last time when we recorded the Metasode, we rambled for an extra hour, so we have this content that we decided to publish anyway. 00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:49.860 So before we get into that, let's explain what's happening. 00:00:49.860 --> 00:00:54.840 So our podcast, Metacast, is a podcast about podcasts. 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:58.060 So we have two types of episodes right now. 00:00:58.740 --> 00:01:15.220 The even ones, like episode number 2, 4, 6, and like 200 someday, those are with guests who are podcasters, or they are in the podcast field, and we interview them, understand their stories and stuff. 00:01:15.220 --> 00:01:18.920 And the odd episodes are our odd episodes. 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:32.020 They're metasodes where we reflect on how the previous recording went, and just rumble about all things podcasting, and things related to audio, and everything in between. 00:01:32.500 --> 00:01:54.080 However, last time, when we sat down to record episode number 7, which would have been a Metasode, it was very nice, like casual vibe between the two of us, and we started basically rambling about a lot of things, one of which was, this is episode number 7, so it's not really odd or even, it's a Prime-y-sode. 00:01:54.340 --> 00:01:58.300 Because it's a Prime number, Optimus, Amazon Prime. 00:01:58.300 --> 00:01:59.360 Yeah. 00:01:59.360 --> 00:02:05.260 Well, we are not related to Meta or Amazon, but yes, it was a Prime-y-sode. 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:10.360 So, and we had all that great content, well, I don't know about great, but we had content. 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:18.140 So we decided, okay, why don't we release this as a bonus episode, a Prime-y-sode. 00:02:18.140 --> 00:02:29.220 So once in a while, we may have episodes like this, but again, just like our regular episodes and the Metasodes, we'll make it clear in the title that this is a bonus Prime-y-sode. 00:02:29.220 --> 00:02:32.720 Is it Bonus-y-sode, or Bonus Prime-y-sode? 00:02:32.720 --> 00:02:36.220 Or Primus? 00:02:36.220 --> 00:02:38.000 I don't know. 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:38.560 Primus? 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:39.460 Yeah. 00:02:39.460 --> 00:02:51.020 In any case, please enjoy one hour of discussions about sci-fi, comics, Neil Gaiman, Asimov. 00:02:51.020 --> 00:02:51.680 Yeah. 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:53.260 Dove Pilkey. 00:02:53.260 --> 00:02:53.620 Music. 00:02:53.620 --> 00:02:54.200 Dogman. 00:02:54.200 --> 00:02:55.340 Yes. 00:02:55.340 --> 00:02:58.180 And some really, really terrible guitar playing. 00:02:58.180 --> 00:03:10.280 So when I was editing this, I'm like, I can't just, well, the only reason why I record this intro is like, I listened to my guitar playing and I'm like, I cannot leave this without a comment. 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:15.760 I just have to like apologize for our listeners for just how terrible that sounds. 00:03:15.980 --> 00:03:24.440 I have not played for ages and I just pulled my guitar out randomly and I, yeah, it came out the way it came out. 00:03:24.440 --> 00:03:26.640 You're probably being humble, but we'll see. 00:03:26.640 --> 00:03:28.680 Anyway, listeners, enjoy. 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:34.740 The episode comes next and whether you like it or not, please, yeah, leave us a review. 00:03:34.740 --> 00:03:36.240 We would love to see that. 00:03:36.920 --> 00:03:37.900 Yeah, with five stars. 00:03:37.900 --> 00:03:40.460 Of Ilya's guitar playing skills. 00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:43.560 Yeah, don't rate us on our guitar playing skills. 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.540 I was being very generous when I said that my playing sucked. 00:03:46.540 --> 00:03:48.040 Anyway. 00:03:48.040 --> 00:03:48.460 All right. 00:03:48.460 --> 00:03:48.880 Enjoy. 00:03:48.880 --> 00:03:50.640 Hey, everyone. 00:03:50.640 --> 00:03:56.120 Welcome to Metasode, episode three, Metacast, episode seven. 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:59.460 I'm sure nobody is confused. 00:03:59.460 --> 00:04:01.900 Yeah, it's Metacast, episode seven. 00:04:01.900 --> 00:04:05.640 We should just go with episode numbers from now on, I think. 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:07.060 Don't you want to confuse people? 00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:10.660 Including us? 00:04:10.660 --> 00:04:11.120 Yes. 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:14.160 Yeah, I really struggle to remember that. 00:04:14.160 --> 00:04:17.280 Like which, you know, which episode is Metasode, which one isn't? 00:04:17.280 --> 00:04:22.280 But when I was writing that intro sub stack, I realized that all of the interview episodes 00:04:22.280 --> 00:04:26.100 are even and all of the odd episodes are odd. 00:04:26.100 --> 00:04:28.140 Right, right, right. 00:04:28.140 --> 00:04:31.160 So Metasode also ends with odd. 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:32.440 So makes sense. 00:04:32.440 --> 00:04:34.000 Yes. 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:35.460 Metasode. 00:04:35.840 --> 00:04:36.880 Yes. 00:04:36.880 --> 00:04:39.940 I mean, man, it's prime time for jokes, right? 00:04:39.940 --> 00:04:40.760 Yes. 00:04:40.760 --> 00:04:42.120 Not yet. 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:43.540 Oh, well, episode seven. 00:04:43.540 --> 00:04:44.720 So totally prime time. 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:45.080 Yes. 00:04:45.080 --> 00:04:49.140 Actually, so far, all of the odd episodes were prime numbers. 00:04:49.140 --> 00:04:50.700 Three, five, and seven. 00:04:50.700 --> 00:04:51.460 Three, five, seven. 00:04:51.460 --> 00:04:51.820 Yes. 00:04:51.820 --> 00:04:52.800 Yeah. 00:04:52.940 --> 00:04:55.740 We haven't gotten, we haven't hit big yet. 00:04:55.740 --> 00:04:56.840 Yeah. 00:04:56.840 --> 00:05:02.340 And so for the people who are listening to this in February and are not getting what we're 00:05:02.340 --> 00:05:05.640 talking about yesterday, which was December 19th. 00:05:05.640 --> 00:05:06.340 Yeah. 00:05:06.340 --> 00:05:07.860 So we recorded this on December 20th. 00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:16.220 And yesterday on December 19th, we sent out a first email newsletter post on sub stack, where we talked 00:05:16.220 --> 00:05:29.300 about, you know, why we do this, about the structure of the even podcasts, even numbered podcasts, being the interviews, the odd numbered being the metasodes, where Arnav and I just talk about our experience doing the podcast. 00:05:29.740 --> 00:05:34.580 And then there was a section there on prime numbers episodes. 00:05:34.580 --> 00:05:39.220 And yeah, we, we added a few dad jokes in there about prime numbers. 00:05:39.220 --> 00:05:48.380 So by the way, about the dad jokes, I already got a bit of feedback from one of my friends and being a good friend, it was very honest feedback, I think. 00:05:48.380 --> 00:05:49.640 Okay. 00:05:49.640 --> 00:05:56.060 What he said is, I wouldn't call the puns like badass at puns. 00:05:56.060 --> 00:05:59.680 Some aren't that great, but they're pretty good. 00:06:00.460 --> 00:06:01.180 So, yeah. 00:06:01.180 --> 00:06:12.560 Well, the thing is, I wrote that you are badass at puns, but then all of the puns in the posts were my, my puns and I'm not, I'm not badass at puns. 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:20.680 No, no, he's not talking about, well, I actually don't know if he's talking about the puns in the post or puns from me in general. 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:27.360 I should ask, clarify, get some more feedback, user research. 00:06:28.060 --> 00:06:29.140 Yeah, here's the thing about puns. 00:06:29.140 --> 00:06:39.600 I think what both you and I really enjoyed when we were both at Amazon, in our chat room, we would, you know, make those puns. 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.240 The cool thing about chat was that actually you could think about what to say. 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:44.060 Yes. 00:06:44.060 --> 00:06:47.980 So, it's a lot harder to do it in real time and when you like speak, right? 00:06:47.980 --> 00:06:53.500 So, jokes might come out that would have best not come out, you know? 00:06:54.200 --> 00:07:06.760 Like, if I'm trying to come back with a pun real time while talking to somebody, it often ends up with me thinking about it for like five minutes, then coming up with something really good. 00:07:06.760 --> 00:07:10.700 But at that point, I'm like, okay, I don't want to bring this up anymore. 00:07:10.700 --> 00:07:12.360 The moment is gone. 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:13.460 So, yeah. 00:07:13.460 --> 00:07:16.380 There is a guy, his name is Yevgeny Grishkavets. 00:07:16.380 --> 00:07:20.300 He is like, so he is a Russian, I don't know what to call him. 00:07:20.300 --> 00:07:21.400 He's like an author. 00:07:21.400 --> 00:07:29.900 So, he goes on stage and he does like a two-hour monologue, which is, it kind of oscillates. 00:07:29.900 --> 00:07:35.700 It goes very deep and then it goes like very funny and he like juxtaposes things. 00:07:35.700 --> 00:07:36.580 It's really, really funny. 00:07:36.580 --> 00:07:41.760 And he, you know, leverages a lot of like cultural context to make things sound really, really funny. 00:07:41.760 --> 00:07:43.260 But not like in a comedy. 00:07:43.260 --> 00:07:45.100 Oh, not a stand-up comedy? 00:07:45.100 --> 00:07:46.760 It sounded like it, okay, okay. 00:07:46.760 --> 00:07:48.500 More like a theatrical performance. 00:07:48.500 --> 00:07:49.100 Okay. 00:07:49.620 --> 00:07:52.000 With a lot of funny stuff in there. 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:52.520 Right. 00:07:52.520 --> 00:07:53.620 But also a lot of deep stuff. 00:07:53.620 --> 00:07:59.340 So, one of the things that he was talking about is like how you like watch a movie with your friends. 00:07:59.340 --> 00:08:01.700 And it was like pre-internet era, right? 00:08:01.700 --> 00:08:05.120 Or like when the internet was very like early, not everybody had internet. 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:10.960 And like you would watch a movie with your friends and everybody tries to remember the name of that actor. 00:08:10.960 --> 00:08:18.940 And basically like halfway into the movie, everybody is occupied searching their minds for that actor's name. 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:21.980 If you don't have Alexa next to you, basically. 00:08:21.980 --> 00:08:25.140 Which is basically like you didn't even have Wikipedia next to you. 00:08:25.140 --> 00:08:27.120 Like there were no smartphones or anything, right? 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:27.540 Yeah. 00:08:27.540 --> 00:08:28.340 It's like back then. 00:08:28.340 --> 00:08:35.840 So, and then basically the half of the movie that you tried to watch is spoiled because you don't really watch the movie. 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:37.300 You just, your mind is preoccupied. 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.940 And then five days later, it's like, oh, Brad Pitt, Brad Pitt, or something. 00:08:41.940 --> 00:08:43.640 But at that point, it's irrelevant. 00:08:43.640 --> 00:08:44.380 Right? 00:08:44.380 --> 00:08:47.720 I've had this so many times. 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:48.340 Yeah. 00:08:48.340 --> 00:08:50.720 At least my latency is not five days. 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:55.220 But it's still, the moment is gone by the time I think of a good like comeback. 00:08:55.500 --> 00:09:05.880 So, you know, you know how like stand-up comedians do these kind of like, almost like rap, but going at each other. 00:09:05.880 --> 00:09:06.880 Yeah. 00:09:06.880 --> 00:09:08.640 Like stand-up battles. 00:09:08.980 --> 00:09:14.160 I'm amazed how they come up with that high quality comebacks like immediately. 00:09:14.160 --> 00:09:15.400 It's a skill. 00:09:15.400 --> 00:09:15.960 Yeah. 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:24.620 But even if you like listen to any of the rap kind of battles, where they just like freestyle come up with rap. 00:09:24.620 --> 00:09:27.580 I mean, I'm doing some of that with my son. 00:09:27.580 --> 00:09:28.360 Yeah. 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:29.780 Just to annoy him. 00:09:29.780 --> 00:09:33.180 It's like dad jokes, rap kind of thing. 00:09:33.180 --> 00:09:38.320 What I realized, what's very important is like rhyming things. 00:09:38.980 --> 00:09:43.000 And so you have to think, well, not think, you have to feel the rhyme. 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:48.720 And then whatever you say kind of sounds okay, as long as there is rhyme. 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:51.720 And what I'm seeing with my son is that he doesn't feel that rhyme. 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:54.420 So he would say things that would have been funny. 00:09:54.420 --> 00:09:57.640 But without the rhyme, they're like, yeah, they don't land very well. 00:09:57.640 --> 00:10:01.240 Next metasode, we should open with one of your raps. 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:02.400 That would be fun. 00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:04.460 I'll open it with something else now. 00:10:04.460 --> 00:10:05.300 Okay. 00:10:05.300 --> 00:10:07.640 All right. 00:10:08.300 --> 00:10:12.060 For listeners, because we don't do video, at least not right now. 00:10:12.060 --> 00:10:14.840 Ilya just pulled out his amazing guitar. 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:16.120 And let's see. 00:10:26.180 --> 00:10:28.880 I thought you were going to like sing into it too. 00:10:28.880 --> 00:10:31.040 Like, scream your podcast. 00:10:31.040 --> 00:10:33.000 No comebacks. 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:34.520 Grip your microphone tight. 00:10:34.520 --> 00:10:36.580 You see what I did here? 00:10:36.580 --> 00:10:38.360 There was no rhyme in there, right? 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:38.700 Yeah. 00:10:38.700 --> 00:10:40.800 Grip your headphones tight. 00:10:40.800 --> 00:10:42.600 I guess that rhymes a little bit better. 00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:43.240 Yeah. 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:43.740 Yeah. 00:10:43.740 --> 00:10:45.800 But still like not as good. 00:10:45.800 --> 00:10:48.260 So yeah, I'll have to think how to edit this. 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:51.240 Or not. 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:52.820 Or not. 00:10:52.820 --> 00:10:53.180 Or not. 00:10:53.180 --> 00:10:53.420 Yeah. 00:10:53.420 --> 00:10:54.960 You know this song, right? 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:56.020 Of course. 00:10:56.020 --> 00:10:57.480 It's Enter Sandman. 00:10:57.480 --> 00:10:58.060 Yeah. 00:10:58.060 --> 00:11:01.900 The December 19th post that you wrote, our very first post. 00:11:01.900 --> 00:11:04.100 You had a pun about this too in there. 00:11:04.100 --> 00:11:04.320 Yeah. 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:04.820 Yeah. 00:11:04.820 --> 00:11:05.640 Enter Sandman. 00:11:06.100 --> 00:11:08.320 But I wanted to talk about Sandman. 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:09.840 Or the Sandman. 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:12.720 The comic book and the audio. 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:14.260 I don't even know what to call it. 00:11:14.260 --> 00:11:15.060 It's not an audio book. 00:11:15.060 --> 00:11:19.900 It's like a theatrical performance where you have multiple actors and music and all the sounds. 00:11:19.900 --> 00:11:23.160 Like, you know, somebody is walking and you hear all that. 00:11:23.160 --> 00:11:23.880 Yeah. 00:11:23.880 --> 00:11:27.660 It's almost like the soundtrack of a movie sort of thing. 00:11:27.660 --> 00:11:27.880 Yeah. 00:11:27.880 --> 00:11:28.440 Yeah. 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:32.480 So I would like to give some context because I think what I realized listening to some of 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:37.400 the things that we haven't published yet, but we'll have published by the time people listen 00:11:37.400 --> 00:11:39.280 to this, is that we don't give enough context. 00:11:39.280 --> 00:11:46.160 So the context I want to give on the Sandman and just bear with me for a few minutes. 00:11:46.160 --> 00:11:55.020 So the Sandman is a masterpiece comic, like a series of comics that was produced from like 00:11:55.020 --> 00:11:57.640 late 80s through mid 90s or so by Neil Gaiman. 00:11:58.220 --> 00:12:03.720 And for those of you who don't know who Neil Gaiman is, it's like you might have watched 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:10.880 Good Omens or American Gods or The Sandman on Netflix or Coraline, which is an animated 00:12:10.880 --> 00:12:11.460 movie. 00:12:11.460 --> 00:12:16.900 He's just a kick-ass author, absolutely favorite author of mine. 00:12:16.900 --> 00:12:18.320 He writes fantasy. 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:23.500 So The Sandman was produced by DC Comics and he was working on that for probably like almost 00:12:23.500 --> 00:12:30.880 a decade and it's a masterpiece of storytelling, kind of the depth and how he mixes religion 00:12:30.880 --> 00:12:36.040 and cultures like, like Norse mythology with Christian religion and stuff. 00:12:36.040 --> 00:12:40.460 It's just so bizarre at times and you have to do some research. 00:12:40.460 --> 00:12:46.700 At least for me, it's so captivating that you have to like go and actually read about stuff 00:12:46.700 --> 00:12:48.280 like reread those comics. 00:12:48.280 --> 00:12:52.780 There are 12, I think officially there are 12 and there are probably two or three more 00:12:52.780 --> 00:12:55.660 like extra books, like open compilations. 00:12:55.660 --> 00:12:59.540 I think they were published maybe like once a week or once a month or something, but now 00:12:59.540 --> 00:13:01.880 you can get the entire box set for like 250 bucks. 00:13:01.880 --> 00:13:06.040 And that's just a great story. 00:13:06.040 --> 00:13:09.560 And Sandman being one of the seven entities. 00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:10.640 So Sandman is Dream. 00:13:10.640 --> 00:13:12.640 He rules the realm of dreams. 00:13:12.640 --> 00:13:17.220 When you dream, Sandman comes to you, he enters, you know, enter Sandman. 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:21.280 So actually when Metallica wrote that song, that's when Sandman was popular. 00:13:21.280 --> 00:13:23.300 It was part of the American zeitgeist. 00:13:23.300 --> 00:13:28.800 So I suppose, I mean, I can't tell for sure, but I suppose them writing that song was influenced 00:13:28.800 --> 00:13:30.840 by Neil Gaiman's work on Sandman. 00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:35.580 And yeah, there's also like death and destiny and destruction. 00:13:35.580 --> 00:13:38.120 So all of them are, all of them start with a D. 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:44.560 All the seven kind of brothers and sisters who rule different realms of, you know, the existence. 00:13:44.920 --> 00:13:47.740 Wait, except Sandman, which starts with S. 00:13:47.740 --> 00:13:49.100 So he's Dream. 00:13:49.100 --> 00:13:51.820 The Sandman is just one of his names. 00:13:51.820 --> 00:13:53.880 He's also Lord Morpheus. 00:13:53.880 --> 00:13:55.340 He's another name. 00:13:55.340 --> 00:13:59.720 And he also has different names and different cultures because that whole story jumps between 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:01.620 different places and times. 00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:04.760 It could go back like 10,000 years where he's named Kaikul. 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:07.540 And it's like prehistoric, you know, times. 00:14:07.540 --> 00:14:12.960 But most of the action happens in like mid-90s where he wears like leather jacket and like 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:13.640 a, like a t-shirt. 00:14:13.640 --> 00:14:15.640 He looks, he looks like Dave Bowie in the comics. 00:14:15.640 --> 00:14:21.700 Long story short, the comics are great, but they're kind of irrelevant to the audio. 00:14:21.880 --> 00:14:28.880 But where it became relevant to the audio is last year, Audible, together with Neil Gaiman 00:14:28.880 --> 00:14:36.980 and the guy called Dirk Maggs, produced this kind of audio theatrical performance of the 00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:44.460 Sandman, which they release every six months or so in kind of an installment of like 15 hours 00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:45.600 or so in length. 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:51.060 So far, they've released three and the fourth is still pending. 00:14:51.060 --> 00:14:53.460 It will probably come out sometime in 2023. 00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:59.040 The way they created this is just absolutely mind-blowing. 00:14:59.040 --> 00:15:00.380 Audiobooks, you mean? 00:15:00.380 --> 00:15:02.300 The audio, yes. 00:15:02.300 --> 00:15:02.560 Yeah. 00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:07.560 If you listen to any of the BBC performances from like the 40s or the 50s, like the radio, 00:15:07.560 --> 00:15:09.520 radio theater, I think that's what they called it. 00:15:09.520 --> 00:15:13.500 They had like the Herbert Wells, The War of Worlds and The Time Machine. 00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:14.080 Yeah. 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:15.380 Which has all these different- 00:15:15.380 --> 00:15:16.080 I remember that one, yeah. 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:16.660 You remember that? 00:15:16.660 --> 00:15:21.000 You know, there's a different cast and it's like a shortened version because you don't 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:26.200 have to say so much because you just hear sounds of like a door banging and you don't have 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:27.500 to say like, he banged the door. 00:15:27.500 --> 00:15:28.000 Yeah. 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:29.360 You just know that, right? 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:33.300 Or you don't have to say like who said what because you can hear whose voice it is. 00:15:33.300 --> 00:15:39.580 So they did the same thing for The Sandman, but because it's modern, I guess, it's a lot 00:15:39.580 --> 00:15:43.040 better or a lot, I guess, more suitable to the taste of the modern people. 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:45.020 And here's the thing. 00:15:45.020 --> 00:15:50.680 The first two installments, I listened basically while doing other stuff like my AirPods while 00:15:50.680 --> 00:15:52.520 driving before going to bed. 00:15:52.520 --> 00:15:54.760 And I was also reading Sandman at the same time. 00:15:54.760 --> 00:15:59.260 I was like alternating between, well, I was like reading and listening and I was like looking 00:15:59.260 --> 00:15:59.780 at pictures. 00:15:59.780 --> 00:16:03.100 It kind of helped me construct the pictures in my head better. 00:16:03.500 --> 00:16:09.480 And also like when I was reading the comics helped me put the voices to the pictures, which 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:14.620 was, it's like watching a movie, but like imagine, you know, if you take a movie like Dune, for 00:16:14.620 --> 00:16:16.060 example, which is like what? 00:16:16.220 --> 00:16:19.480 It's three hours maybe, but the book is like 600 pages. 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:19.960 Yeah. 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:20.220 Yeah. 00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:20.380 Yeah. 00:16:20.380 --> 00:16:24.600 So, so, so obviously they have to omit like two thirds of the, of the content. 00:16:24.980 --> 00:16:27.820 So imagine this, uh, audio compilation plus the comics. 00:16:27.820 --> 00:16:31.820 It's like the book that's been fully filmed, right? 00:16:31.820 --> 00:16:33.020 That's what it feels like. 00:16:33.020 --> 00:16:37.380 So what I, uh, realized when I was, when I recently purchased the third installment, which 00:16:37.380 --> 00:16:41.440 just came out, I was doing dishes and I was listening to them in my AirPods and I'm like, 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.220 I just can't do that because. 00:16:44.220 --> 00:16:45.320 You need full attention. 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:46.040 Yes. 00:16:46.040 --> 00:16:47.740 This thing is just so high quality. 00:16:47.740 --> 00:16:51.100 It's like, you know, reading and driving, you can't read and drive, right? 00:16:51.100 --> 00:16:55.700 Well, I know some people, some people do that with like texts, but it's not a good idea to 00:16:55.700 --> 00:16:57.000 read like fiction and drive. 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:01.120 And the same thing for this, at least audio novel, I guess that's what I would call it. 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:05.900 So you're saying that it's not like much higher quality than our podcast. 00:17:05.900 --> 00:17:07.860 So you shouldn't casually listen to it. 00:17:07.860 --> 00:17:09.500 You should actually enjoy it fully. 00:17:09.500 --> 00:17:10.400 Yes. 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:16.160 So yeah, like I actually stopped listening to it when I was in dishes and then I, after 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:21.580 I finished, I came to my backyard, I sat on the couch and I got my studio headphones, the 00:17:21.580 --> 00:17:24.260 same headphones I use for producing this podcast. 00:17:24.260 --> 00:17:28.860 And I started listening and I just got so immersed into the story. 00:17:28.860 --> 00:17:31.040 It's unbelievable. 00:17:31.340 --> 00:17:37.120 So it's just what I, I just wanted to say that there are some books, there are some songs, 00:17:37.120 --> 00:17:40.240 there are some podcasts, which, you know, ours isn't one of them. 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:41.440 Yet. 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:42.960 Yet. 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:43.260 Yeah. 00:17:43.260 --> 00:17:48.140 Well, I guess, except the Jake and Jonathan episode, that one you can probably sit and relax 00:17:48.140 --> 00:17:48.540 and enjoy. 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:48.960 Yeah. 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:56.340 Uh, that you just have to really enjoy, just like slow down life, uh, you know, sit down 00:17:56.340 --> 00:17:56.900 for an hour. 00:17:56.900 --> 00:17:57.640 Oh yeah. 00:17:57.640 --> 00:17:58.960 That's not the thing that I discovered there. 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:03.780 Like chapters are about one hour long because the chapter encompasses kind of pretty significant 00:18:03.780 --> 00:18:04.180 story. 00:18:04.620 --> 00:18:08.140 It has like a beginning and the end and then it switches to something else in the next chapter. 00:18:08.140 --> 00:18:09.000 It's like a mini book. 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:09.600 Yeah. 00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:14.380 I guess it makes sense because they were produced as, as like comics once a month or like once 00:18:14.380 --> 00:18:16.240 every two weeks or whenever, whatever the frequency was. 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:20.680 So I guess that's why like they have to be like self contained, you know? 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:21.300 So yeah. 00:18:21.300 --> 00:18:24.980 Uh, like doing a production like that justice, I think is very important. 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:31.620 Now I just realized like I would, I used to listen to books like a two X, 1.5 X, but with 00:18:31.620 --> 00:18:39.160 this one, I think it has to be listened at a normal speed and some parts need to be re-listened. 00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:39.740 Right. 00:18:39.740 --> 00:18:43.140 And like in full silence, full enjoyment with like nobody's tracking you. 00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:44.340 I don't know. 00:18:44.340 --> 00:18:46.960 I, I, it's been about like 15 minutes since I started talking about this. 00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:54.400 No, most podcasts and audio books, I do listen at like 1.5 X or something like that. 00:18:54.600 --> 00:19:00.240 Even podcasts, even podcast, like I, I turn, I use overcast right now and they 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:02.040 have a setting for like automatic. 00:19:02.040 --> 00:19:05.940 You can provide a range and in that range, they'll automatically do that. 00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:08.340 And I set it to between 1.3 and 1.5. 00:19:08.340 --> 00:19:09.360 Interesting. 00:19:09.360 --> 00:19:17.020 Because for podcasts, especially when people talk, I actually want to feel the, um, I want 00:19:17.020 --> 00:19:18.120 to feel the conversation. 00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:19.540 So I think, okay. 00:19:19.540 --> 00:19:23.800 So what ends up happening is for podcasts that I have heard a 00:19:23.800 --> 00:19:28.900 a lot of times and I know exactly kind of the format and how they speak. 00:19:28.900 --> 00:19:35.080 I tend to listen at a much faster pace because I know exactly how it feels like, but new ones. 00:19:35.080 --> 00:19:35.780 Yes, you're right. 00:19:35.780 --> 00:19:38.540 I mean, the app itself also the new ones. 00:19:38.540 --> 00:19:41.460 I do listen at one X or close to one X. 00:19:41.460 --> 00:19:42.140 Yeah. 00:19:42.140 --> 00:19:43.220 But okay. 00:19:43.220 --> 00:19:44.480 So let me ask. 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:51.220 So how did you land up on, I have so many questions and tangents now from your monologue 00:19:51.220 --> 00:19:52.140 about Sandman. 00:19:54.820 --> 00:19:58.880 And my performance of the Metallica, I hope for the suit for copyright infringement. 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:03.040 I mean, if we do, we've made it big. 00:20:03.040 --> 00:20:07.420 Well, yes, let me, let me, let me just check one thing really quick. 00:20:07.420 --> 00:20:09.520 So James Hetfield net worth. 00:20:09.520 --> 00:20:11.000 Let's see how much he is worth. 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:12.920 He is worth $300 million. 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:16.900 You can see me for maybe like, I don't know, $20,000. 00:20:16.900 --> 00:20:21.940 I mean, if they have sued us, we've made it big. 00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:24.020 So I would say that's a good problem. 00:20:24.020 --> 00:20:25.400 We will all over the news. 00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:25.860 Yeah. 00:20:25.860 --> 00:20:26.740 Yeah. 00:20:26.740 --> 00:20:31.920 The Streisand effect or like what Elon Musk tries to do every other day. 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:33.760 Right. 00:20:33.760 --> 00:20:37.400 Anyway, so my questions about Sandman. 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:40.160 So how did you land up on that? 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:46.880 Were you trying to explain why that song is like very near and dear to you and you landed 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:50.940 up on that or, or were you talking about the audio quality aspect of it? 00:20:50.940 --> 00:20:55.640 I was just trying to show how bad I am at their articulating thoughts when I'm 00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:56.720 super excited about something. 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:03.180 No, I think I was just so excited about this and I wanted to share this because audio books 00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:05.260 are related to audio. 00:21:05.260 --> 00:21:09.560 Well, I guess to podcasts because they're both audio, they're both information, they're 00:21:09.560 --> 00:21:14.820 both content that you consume to get information, to get some enjoyment, for pleasure. 00:21:14.820 --> 00:21:21.180 And I just had this striking observation, I guess, for the first time in my life where it 00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:22.360 just wasn't about the content. 00:21:22.360 --> 00:21:25.300 It was about full immersion into audio. 00:21:25.620 --> 00:21:25.780 Right. 00:21:25.780 --> 00:21:27.560 That I never experienced before. 00:21:27.560 --> 00:21:29.500 And that's why I wanted to share about that. 00:21:29.500 --> 00:21:36.660 I have heard only one audio book like that, where they have a full cast of characters. 00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:41.200 Usually it's one narrator who's doing an excellent job portraying. 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:44.040 By the way, you know who narrates the Sandman? 00:21:44.040 --> 00:21:44.800 Who? 00:21:44.800 --> 00:21:46.000 Neil Gaiman. 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.000 The author himself. 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:52.620 So basically, all of the stuff that's not said by characters, he says himself. 00:21:52.620 --> 00:21:56.240 And he has such a great, mellow kind of voice. 00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.020 By the way, he narrates all of his books. 00:21:58.020 --> 00:22:04.820 So if you ever listen to any Neil Gaiman's books, you have to buy the one where he's a narrator 00:22:04.820 --> 00:22:06.740 and listen to that one ex. 00:22:06.740 --> 00:22:08.180 He is a great storyteller. 00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:09.260 And I'll shut up here. 00:22:09.260 --> 00:22:13.600 And I'll try to go back to that tangent. 00:22:14.220 --> 00:22:17.400 So I've heard only one audio book like that. 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:21.980 And I think the fact that I can't remember which one it was kind of says it wasn't like 00:22:21.980 --> 00:22:27.300 as it didn't leave that kind of an impression on me as this one clearly did on you. 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:29.320 But I still loved it, right? 00:22:29.320 --> 00:22:31.660 Like, I haven't heard too much work. 00:22:31.660 --> 00:22:37.260 Like, I think, like you said, BBC early work, like the War of the Worlds, that sort of stuff 00:22:37.260 --> 00:22:41.180 was popular and not too many audio books like that. 00:22:41.180 --> 00:22:44.640 And it probably takes a lot to kind of produce that kind of a thing. 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:45.420 It's very expensive. 00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:46.440 It must be pretty expensive. 00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:47.060 Okay. 00:22:47.060 --> 00:22:55.840 So one interesting thing you said, and this is about your like listening to it while reading 00:22:55.840 --> 00:23:02.140 the comics, because you wanted to put the faces next to it, I almost have the opposite kind 00:23:02.140 --> 00:23:03.320 of feel to it. 00:23:03.320 --> 00:23:08.880 When I listen to an audio book, or even when I'm reading a book, I start to form mental images 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:10.660 of these characters, right? 00:23:10.660 --> 00:23:14.720 And they kind of evolve along with the character. 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:17.360 And it's pretty awesome. 00:23:17.360 --> 00:23:24.640 And I feel this is why I like audio books and books much more than like TV, because when 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:31.660 I'm watching it in TV, I feel like a lot of my creative juices that goes into like figuring 00:23:31.660 --> 00:23:36.440 out how this character looks like, or how do they act and all that is just taken away. 00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:43.600 And this is what ends up happening when I watch, especially I watch a TV show after I've read 00:23:43.600 --> 00:23:44.040 something. 00:23:44.040 --> 00:23:50.580 I find it very jarring because it doesn't match with my internal like visualization of that 00:23:50.580 --> 00:23:51.000 character. 00:23:51.500 --> 00:23:52.700 Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. 00:23:52.700 --> 00:23:54.920 I don't know where I stand on this spectrum. 00:23:54.920 --> 00:24:01.640 I think an interesting experience I had this year, I watched the Dune in the theater. 00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:05.200 I think it was end of last year when it came out, because this is released in 2023, right? 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:06.300 And we are not working in 2022. 00:24:06.300 --> 00:24:07.260 Yeah. 00:24:07.260 --> 00:24:10.400 So the Dune came out in 2021, the movie. 00:24:11.020 --> 00:24:12.400 And I watched it in theater. 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.620 It's just a fabulous movie. 00:24:14.620 --> 00:24:17.060 I hadn't read the book before watching the movie. 00:24:17.060 --> 00:24:18.660 And then I recently read the book. 00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:23.620 I bought the hardcover and I like savored the book because it was so good. 00:24:23.620 --> 00:24:28.360 That book is very dense in terms of like all these concepts and different terms and all 00:24:28.360 --> 00:24:32.940 these kind of races and different planets and all civilizations, all this stuff. 00:24:33.040 --> 00:24:36.860 I don't know how advanced you are, whether you're able to like reproduce a lot in your head. 00:24:36.860 --> 00:24:43.340 For me, I think the fact that I had watched the movie before was of great help because when 00:24:43.340 --> 00:24:46.380 they were talking about that, ah, what's the name? 00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:50.780 That witch that was using that Gom Jabara thing thing on. 00:24:50.780 --> 00:24:53.260 I've forgotten the name. 00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:54.620 Yeah, I've forgotten the names. 00:24:54.620 --> 00:24:56.080 Yeah, they come complicated names. 00:24:56.080 --> 00:24:59.520 But I would have a flashback to that scene in the movie. 00:24:59.520 --> 00:25:02.020 It would help me put the things into perspective. 00:25:02.020 --> 00:25:03.960 And maybe because the movie is so good. 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:06.000 I had no hard feelings about that. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:11.660 But what I realized after reading the book is that there is just so much stuff that's not 00:25:11.660 --> 00:25:13.340 being said in the movie. 00:25:13.340 --> 00:25:14.040 Yeah. 00:25:14.040 --> 00:25:14.540 Yeah. 00:25:14.540 --> 00:25:20.460 When they talk about this jihad and all these, you know, these horses, people on horses and 00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:23.280 stuff, it doesn't make that much sense in the movie. 00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:24.000 To me, at least. 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:24.920 It goes too fast. 00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:26.320 It goes too fast. 00:25:26.320 --> 00:25:30.720 And it's like, why do they show these like Mongol armies riding on horses or something? 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:35.940 But then when you read the book, it's like he has these flashbacks that, not flashbacks, 00:25:35.940 --> 00:25:37.220 like flashbacks to the future, I guess. 00:25:37.220 --> 00:25:37.740 Yes. 00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:40.280 That something is going to happen like a holy war. 00:25:40.280 --> 00:25:45.720 And it's not until I started reading the second book, Dune Messiah, that I'm just going 00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:50.500 to spoil it for everybody now, where some of those visions from the movie and from the 00:25:50.500 --> 00:25:51.940 first book, they actually came into reality. 00:25:52.320 --> 00:25:58.520 Actually, they are omitted from the story because like the second book starts from the thing 00:25:58.520 --> 00:26:00.360 that that's already happened. 00:26:00.360 --> 00:26:04.760 So like in between the books, those visions become reality, but you just never know them. 00:26:04.760 --> 00:26:09.540 You find out like piecemeal what happened from the second book, which I haven't finished reading 00:26:09.540 --> 00:26:09.780 yet. 00:26:10.040 --> 00:26:14.580 I haven't read the second, the first book is one of my all time favorites. 00:26:14.580 --> 00:26:18.500 I think that along with Isaac Asimov, I love sci-fi. 00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:19.900 You know that obviously. 00:26:19.900 --> 00:26:26.540 For the record, you hooked me up on sci-fi by introducing me to Isaac Asimov, which I read. 00:26:26.540 --> 00:26:28.940 I read almost the entire foundation thing. 00:26:28.940 --> 00:26:31.360 I think I read like nine out of 15 books. 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:33.900 So yeah, thanks to you for that. 00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:34.520 Right. 00:26:34.520 --> 00:26:37.760 But yeah, the Dune first book is one of my favorites. 00:26:37.760 --> 00:26:39.400 I haven't read the second book. 00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:41.080 I didn't even know there was a second book. 00:26:41.080 --> 00:26:43.620 That didn't come out like long time back, right? 00:26:43.620 --> 00:26:46.760 I mean, the Dune was written in like the 60s. 00:26:46.840 --> 00:26:51.820 Yeah, I read it like 10 years ago, I think the first book, but the second book, was it 00:26:51.820 --> 00:26:52.100 there? 00:26:52.100 --> 00:26:54.740 I somehow never even came across it. 00:26:54.740 --> 00:26:58.980 No, I think, I think, I think Frank Herbert died like 20 years ago. 00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:00.800 So it must have. 00:27:00.800 --> 00:27:02.860 So is this like a fan fiction? 00:27:02.860 --> 00:27:04.860 No, no, no. 00:27:04.860 --> 00:27:06.540 It's written by him. 00:27:06.540 --> 00:27:08.920 I think, I think it's a, it's a trilogy if I'm not mistaking. 00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:09.780 Oh, okay. 00:27:09.780 --> 00:27:10.440 Yeah. 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:11.600 Maybe it's just not as popular. 00:27:11.600 --> 00:27:16.820 So the second book, I have a colleague who told me that of all of the Dune books, 00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:18.700 the second book is his favorite. 00:27:18.700 --> 00:27:20.960 And I was curious why. 00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:23.920 And he said, it's like a treatise on religion. 00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:28.400 And when I started reading that, I kind of get why he's saying that. 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:32.860 So it's almost like by reading that book, you can understand religion better, which is 00:27:32.860 --> 00:27:36.220 a very interesting way to think about sci-fi. 00:27:36.220 --> 00:27:37.020 Right. 00:27:37.020 --> 00:27:45.420 So I actually took, I read the books 10 years ago, the first book, and I watched a movie 00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:45.980 last year. 00:27:45.980 --> 00:27:47.320 I loved that book. 00:27:47.320 --> 00:27:50.340 So I took, I was super excited about the movie, right? 00:27:50.340 --> 00:27:55.560 And I took my daughter with me and she was nine at that time. 00:27:55.560 --> 00:28:01.560 And so we went in, we watched the whole movie and it's kind of a, I don't know what I expected 00:28:01.560 --> 00:28:04.880 out of her watching that movie, but I showed her the trailers. 00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:06.040 It looked pretty cool. 00:28:06.040 --> 00:28:07.840 And I said, okay, let's go watch that movie. 00:28:07.840 --> 00:28:09.220 This is one of my favorite books. 00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:16.160 And we did, and we came out and I felt like it was too rushed. 00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:19.700 It was, if I remember, it was like a three hour long, very long movie. 00:28:20.540 --> 00:28:21.680 And it covers only half the book. 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:22.300 Yeah. 00:28:22.300 --> 00:28:27.480 And even then, I think a lot of the context that's in the books and the character building 00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:30.920 and all that is lost because you can't have that in a movie, like in three. 00:28:31.080 --> 00:28:33.320 I think the audio book is like 20 hours or so. 00:28:33.320 --> 00:28:34.300 Yeah. 00:28:34.300 --> 00:28:35.060 Yeah. 00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:39.140 So, so I came out with like, oh, this is so rushed. 00:28:39.140 --> 00:28:41.840 Like I wish they had made it into like two, three movies. 00:28:41.840 --> 00:28:42.140 Right. 00:28:42.140 --> 00:28:47.480 And then she came out with like, it was so boring until the very end. 00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:51.460 It was like, cause she could not relate to what was happening. 00:28:51.460 --> 00:28:57.800 First of all, I think a lot of the topics and subtext is way more advanced than it's meant 00:28:57.800 --> 00:28:58.720 to be for a child. 00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:05.500 And second, she didn't have the same appreciation or awareness of these characters and all that. 00:29:05.700 --> 00:29:06.560 I hit. 00:29:06.560 --> 00:29:12.760 And so she was like, I had no idea what was happening for like first one and a half hours. 00:29:12.760 --> 00:29:14.180 So, yeah. 00:29:14.180 --> 00:29:15.160 So this is a good segue. 00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:19.060 I have a to do in my notes for this. 00:29:19.060 --> 00:29:21.520 By the way, we are going to talk about podcasting as well. 00:29:21.520 --> 00:29:22.220 Yes. 00:29:22.220 --> 00:29:26.200 We have to, we have to, we have to let this, let this out first. 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:30.920 So, so I have this item I want to talk about, which is to bitch about the younger generation 00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:32.840 and their short attention span. 00:29:33.360 --> 00:29:36.840 So, so my son is one year younger than your daughter. 00:29:36.840 --> 00:29:39.240 Actually, no, he's six months younger than your daughter. 00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:41.140 So he's 10 now. 00:29:41.140 --> 00:29:43.840 So we were watching Home Alone. 00:29:43.840 --> 00:29:46.200 We were like, okay, so it's Christmas time. 00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:46.680 Let's. 00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:48.200 Which one? 00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:49.520 First one? 00:29:49.520 --> 00:29:50.420 The original one. 00:29:50.420 --> 00:29:50.600 Yeah. 00:29:50.600 --> 00:29:52.860 You know, let's, let's introduce him to the Home Alone. 00:29:52.860 --> 00:29:54.680 Like both me and my wife, we grew up. 00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:58.520 Like actually Macaulay Culkin, who plays the guy there, the Home Alone guy. 00:29:58.520 --> 00:30:03.040 He's, I think two or three years younger than, you know, than you and I. 00:30:03.040 --> 00:30:03.480 Yeah. 00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:04.840 He's like 42, 43 now. 00:30:04.840 --> 00:30:09.860 So like basically when he was playing that movie, I was just about the same age when I 00:30:09.860 --> 00:30:10.380 was watching it. 00:30:10.380 --> 00:30:13.380 Because I watched, I watched maybe like three or four years after it came out. 00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:17.560 So, so yeah, I was about the same age as he was when he was playing this and I just liked 00:30:17.560 --> 00:30:18.020 it so much. 00:30:18.020 --> 00:30:20.340 And my son is about the same age now, a little bit older. 00:30:20.340 --> 00:30:25.900 So he was watching it and he's like, can I just watch Minecraft stuff instead? 00:30:25.900 --> 00:30:26.600 Okay. 00:30:26.600 --> 00:30:28.360 Let's just like go play Minecraft Dungeons. 00:30:28.360 --> 00:30:29.040 Okay. 00:30:29.040 --> 00:30:29.680 Let's just go read. 00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:32.740 I'm like, I'm like, why? 00:30:32.740 --> 00:30:34.320 And he's like, it's just boring. 00:30:34.320 --> 00:30:39.580 And I'm watching this and I realized now that if I didn't have this emotional connection 00:30:39.580 --> 00:30:42.820 to the movie, I would find it boring because there's just so much buildup in there. 00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:46.640 And it also looks kind of cheesy and finicky how they do stuff there. 00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:52.940 But then the last like 10 or 15 minutes where he makes all these traps and all these criminals 00:30:52.940 --> 00:30:53.700 like fall on them. 00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:56.900 By the way, this is just so exaggerated and stupid, like what they do there. 00:30:56.900 --> 00:31:01.800 But it's funny, I guess, by certain measures of funniness. 00:31:01.800 --> 00:31:05.040 And then he really enjoyed it, like last 15 minutes. 00:31:05.040 --> 00:31:11.060 But I think if that whole movie was 15 minutes or like a TikTok thing, he would have probably 00:31:11.060 --> 00:31:12.560 enjoyed it a lot more. 00:31:12.980 --> 00:31:18.520 And the same thing goes, like I had him start to read Tolkien's hobby. 00:31:18.520 --> 00:31:18.980 Yeah. 00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:25.380 And he read the first like three or four chapters and he's like, nothing is happening. 00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:31.780 Well, to be fair, this might be like sacrilege to a lot of people. 00:31:31.780 --> 00:31:37.320 But when I read those books the first time, I thought they were super long. 00:31:37.320 --> 00:31:38.320 I had the same kind of reaction. 00:31:38.320 --> 00:31:45.940 I think after getting into it enough, then you start to like connect with the characters 00:31:45.940 --> 00:31:48.500 and all that and you start enjoying it. 00:31:48.500 --> 00:31:51.420 I think the point I want to make about that generation, right? 00:31:51.860 --> 00:31:54.760 It's not just about the short attention span. 00:31:54.760 --> 00:31:56.420 It's just that... 00:31:56.420 --> 00:31:57.060 Impatience. 00:31:57.400 --> 00:32:01.780 Lack of impatience, like lack of desire to do the work. 00:32:01.780 --> 00:32:02.360 Yeah. 00:32:02.360 --> 00:32:04.000 Like instant gratification. 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:07.160 Like, I mean, that's true in our generation already. 00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:08.320 Yeah. 00:32:08.320 --> 00:32:11.360 But it's like kind of supercharged in the next generation. 00:32:11.360 --> 00:32:15.200 Sorry, by the way, to set the record correct, because I don't want to get this wrong. 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:22.700 If Macaulay Culkin is like 42, 43, then we are not two, three years older than him. 00:32:22.700 --> 00:32:23.940 Right. 00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:24.940 I got it wrong. 00:32:24.940 --> 00:32:25.940 Yeah, younger than him. 00:32:25.940 --> 00:32:27.240 Two, three years younger than him. 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:27.520 That's right. 00:32:27.520 --> 00:32:29.940 Just to set the record right, this is important stuff. 00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:31.640 Yes. 00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:34.660 Yeah, because I'm actually not in my 40s yet. 00:32:34.660 --> 00:32:35.600 Yes. 00:32:35.600 --> 00:32:36.700 Exactly. 00:32:36.700 --> 00:32:38.040 I'm like, what? 00:32:38.040 --> 00:32:39.220 Well, I just turned 39. 00:32:39.220 --> 00:32:39.880 So, yeah. 00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:41.160 Cool. 00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:41.420 Okay. 00:32:41.420 --> 00:32:43.900 So, but the thing about that, doing the work. 00:32:44.580 --> 00:32:48.540 If a book has like 600,000 reviews on Goodreads, right? 00:32:48.540 --> 00:32:50.620 Like, there is something about it. 00:32:50.620 --> 00:32:56.380 I'm making the number up, but Hobbit probably has like hundreds of thousands of star ratings 00:32:56.380 --> 00:32:58.660 and it's all like four and a half stars or something. 00:32:58.660 --> 00:32:59.980 There is something about it. 00:32:59.980 --> 00:33:04.500 So, like, if you read the first few chapters and you still don't get it, just keep going. 00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:05.700 Something will come out. 00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:10.660 It's possible that it's just not your cup of tea, but he likes reading all the fantasy, 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:15.180 like Wings of Fire and all that modern stuff, which actually I read with him. 00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:16.800 Actually, it feels like an action movie. 00:33:16.800 --> 00:33:20.960 Like, you start, you like read that, like in the middle of the first chapter, you know, 00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:25.220 shit starts to happen and like stories unfold. 00:33:25.220 --> 00:33:28.100 Maybe that's why kids like those series so much. 00:33:28.100 --> 00:33:33.920 Because like there isn't much different in Wings of Fire, you know, these kids books, 00:33:34.260 --> 00:33:37.400 which I won't even go into what they're about, like dragons and stuff. 00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:38.440 I haven't read any of those. 00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:39.840 I just read like the first few chapters. 00:33:39.840 --> 00:33:45.500 I would say it's probably like two steps lower quality than Tolkien's stuff. 00:33:45.500 --> 00:33:46.120 Right. 00:33:46.120 --> 00:33:47.020 Lord of the Rings. 00:33:47.020 --> 00:33:48.940 But it unfolds faster. 00:33:48.940 --> 00:33:50.360 But it's more action-packed. 00:33:50.360 --> 00:33:51.460 Yes, it's shorter. 00:33:51.460 --> 00:33:52.760 Yeah. 00:33:52.760 --> 00:33:54.900 No, I think that that's true. 00:33:54.900 --> 00:34:01.440 I would say if he didn't like the first one, I have a bit of a similar feeling, to be honest. 00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:07.700 Like, I like the third Home Alone movie the most because there was a lot more strategy 00:34:07.700 --> 00:34:12.300 and planning of the traps and then the unfolding of everything. 00:34:12.460 --> 00:34:14.440 It lasted for like an hour. 00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:20.260 Whereas in the first couple of movies, it was the whole unpacking of what's happening 00:34:20.260 --> 00:34:25.480 and the payoff is like almost towards the last 15, 20 minutes. 00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:27.040 I think I know what's going on. 00:34:27.040 --> 00:34:31.760 The movie Home Alone came out in 1991, if I'm not mistaken. 00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:33.460 Yeah, something like that. 00:34:33.460 --> 00:34:36.760 Like 30 years ago, there was no competition. 00:34:37.720 --> 00:34:42.780 Basically, you would sit in front of your TV in the evening, like look at that. 00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:45.400 I don't know actually what was happening in the U.S. 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:48.840 I was in, what do you call it, like early school in Russia. 00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:52.760 Yeah, actually, yeah, it was still U.S.S.R. I guess it was about to become Russia. 00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:58.180 And so we would get this weekly newspaper that had all of the, like the schedule, 00:34:58.180 --> 00:34:59.500 the programming schedule. 00:34:59.500 --> 00:35:00.000 Listing. 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:02.080 For like whatever, like the two channels that we had. 00:35:02.080 --> 00:35:05.440 I remember my uncle and I, because he was into movies, 00:35:05.720 --> 00:35:10.100 we would sit with the highlighter marker and highlight the things that we wanted to watch. 00:35:10.100 --> 00:35:15.700 And then, yeah, like let's say 9 p.m., you like go back home from, you know, 00:35:15.700 --> 00:35:19.900 from outside and you sit in front of a TV and you watch that Home Alone thing. 00:35:19.900 --> 00:35:21.180 Because the alternative. 00:35:21.180 --> 00:35:24.340 Yeah, with the ads and everything in between. 00:35:24.340 --> 00:35:26.680 Yeah, with the ads and all that. 00:35:26.680 --> 00:35:31.400 Because the alternative was like to read a book or, I don't know, 00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:33.920 go talk to someone or go to bed, right? 00:35:34.140 --> 00:35:37.200 Yeah, there wasn't even anything to pull, to distract yourself. 00:35:37.200 --> 00:35:38.460 Like you sit in front of the TV. 00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:40.940 There is, I mean, you can talk to the person who sits next to you. 00:35:40.940 --> 00:35:42.460 That's the only thing you can distract yourself with. 00:35:42.460 --> 00:35:48.420 Whereas now, you like, you pull your phone and then don't get to start on YouTube shorts 00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:52.100 because like you can just like get lost yourself for like an hour 00:35:52.100 --> 00:35:54.020 by just like watching a 30-second short. 00:35:54.300 --> 00:35:59.200 Yeah, and you start from like tennis and you end up in, I don't know, deep sea diving or whatever. 00:35:59.200 --> 00:36:01.720 Yeah, it's all interesting. 00:36:01.720 --> 00:36:03.240 But like after the fact, it's like, what? 00:36:03.240 --> 00:36:03.960 Yeah. 00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:04.780 Wait, wait. 00:36:04.780 --> 00:36:06.340 And then you wonder what happened. 00:36:06.340 --> 00:36:07.460 Wait, it's midnight? 00:36:07.460 --> 00:36:08.760 Yeah. 00:36:09.240 --> 00:36:19.720 But the on-demand media, it's insane how in like 10, 15 years, it has completely changed the experience 00:36:19.720 --> 00:36:24.580 and what people expect out of media, right? 00:36:24.580 --> 00:36:29.460 Like my daughter, I've told her so many times that this is how we used to watch TV, 00:36:29.460 --> 00:36:31.600 that things come on at a certain time. 00:36:31.600 --> 00:36:34.680 Even recording wasn't there early on, right? 00:36:34.680 --> 00:36:38.440 Like you watch it at that time or you don't watch it, you wait for a rerun. 00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:42.860 And you figure out when the rerun is. 00:36:43.260 --> 00:36:45.220 She can't understand that concept. 00:36:45.220 --> 00:36:46.860 That, what? 00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:48.560 Like you can't watch it? 00:36:48.560 --> 00:36:49.900 Yeah. 00:36:49.900 --> 00:36:50.680 Yeah. 00:36:50.680 --> 00:36:56.280 It's such a, and it's a short amount of time if we're speaking about the history of like media 00:36:56.280 --> 00:37:02.600 and television, like within 10 years or so, it has completely changed, maybe 15 years. 00:37:02.600 --> 00:37:03.580 Yeah. 00:37:03.580 --> 00:37:05.760 And I think the same happened to music as well. 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:06.380 Yeah. 00:37:06.380 --> 00:37:13.040 Like you would use, I used to go to the music store and either buy a CD or like rent a CD 00:37:13.040 --> 00:37:18.960 and then go back home, like rip it into MP3s, then you can rent another one, et cetera. 00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:20.320 Same with VHS tapes. 00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:20.980 Yeah. 00:37:20.980 --> 00:37:26.740 And now it's just so much abundance that surprisingly, actually, I ended up listening to exactly the 00:37:26.740 --> 00:37:30.420 same music because just there is so much music that I don't know what to choose from. 00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:31.220 Right. 00:37:31.220 --> 00:37:33.460 Maybe the same with podcasts, actually. 00:37:33.460 --> 00:37:35.220 So let's get back to podcasting. 00:37:35.220 --> 00:37:40.780 I have one more quick tangent and question for you before we head back into podcast. 00:37:40.780 --> 00:37:40.920 Yeah. 00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:41.360 Yeah. 00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:42.040 You've got 10 minutes. 00:37:42.820 --> 00:37:44.980 Okay. 00:37:44.980 --> 00:37:46.340 All right. 00:37:46.340 --> 00:37:51.660 So Sandman, you've told me about this before and I've always wanted to read it, but I'm 00:37:51.660 --> 00:37:53.740 not a big like comics person. 00:37:53.740 --> 00:37:58.880 I think I've only read Asterix and Tintin and some Indian comics. 00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:00.400 Those are like my favorites. 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:02.360 Other than that, I haven't read much. 00:38:02.940 --> 00:38:06.840 So Sandman, the Netflix series, is that like good? 00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:07.280 Yes, shit. 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:08.180 Okay. 00:38:08.180 --> 00:38:11.380 It's a piece of crap. 00:38:11.380 --> 00:38:16.120 Netflix keeps throwing it on my face like every time I open the app, but okay. 00:38:16.120 --> 00:38:16.860 Got it. 00:38:17.100 --> 00:38:17.940 So, but here's the thing. 00:38:17.940 --> 00:38:20.220 I'm, I guess, semi-joking here. 00:38:20.220 --> 00:38:28.480 So the Sandman on Netflix, they took, I think, the first three or four books and they condensed 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:30.900 them into six one-hour-long episodes. 00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:31.920 Okay. 00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:39.180 That emit so much depth from the real thing. 00:38:39.180 --> 00:38:42.960 The cool thing about the audio is that no single word is emitted. 00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:43.540 Okay. 00:38:43.540 --> 00:38:44.160 It's full length. 00:38:44.160 --> 00:38:48.580 So an extra narration is added to make, to help you make more sense because there are 00:38:48.580 --> 00:38:49.020 no pictures. 00:38:49.020 --> 00:38:49.600 Right. 00:38:49.600 --> 00:38:55.700 Whereas the Netflix thing is like dumbed down version that has also a bunch of action. 00:38:55.700 --> 00:39:01.120 To be fair though, I think starting from episode three or four, it starts to get better. 00:39:01.120 --> 00:39:04.240 I think maybe, maybe that build up is a little bit too slow. 00:39:04.240 --> 00:39:05.840 Also, I didn't like the cast. 00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:06.620 Okay. 00:39:06.620 --> 00:39:10.960 I think the cast, maybe because also I was already so used to the voices in the audible narration 00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:13.780 that I was like, that doesn't sound like Sandman. 00:39:14.160 --> 00:39:14.720 No. 00:39:14.720 --> 00:39:19.320 The voices and maybe also the characters built up in your head. 00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:22.560 Also, the images from the comics, right? 00:39:22.560 --> 00:39:22.980 Yes. 00:39:22.980 --> 00:39:28.800 Because I think the thing that they did is they changed the genders and races of some 00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:30.200 of the characters. 00:39:30.200 --> 00:39:30.880 Yeah. 00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:36.520 Which I guess I wouldn't have paid attention to if I didn't know that they were different 00:39:36.520 --> 00:39:40.240 in the original thing and also in the audible interpretation. 00:39:40.240 --> 00:39:41.020 Right. 00:39:41.020 --> 00:39:43.940 So some of those characters are not important. 00:39:44.060 --> 00:39:48.200 Some of those characters are more important, but like for me, I had this jarring experience 00:39:48.200 --> 00:39:54.580 of trying to reconcile things, but somebody at work, he said that he watched the Sandman 00:39:54.580 --> 00:39:57.180 and he's like, so good. 00:39:57.180 --> 00:39:59.000 I'm like looking forward to the second season. 00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:00.600 He never read the comics. 00:40:00.600 --> 00:40:02.320 He never listened to the audible thing. 00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:02.900 Right. 00:40:02.900 --> 00:40:07.540 So I'm curious actually, if you watch the Netflix series, what would your reaction would be? 00:40:07.540 --> 00:40:09.500 Because you might, you might actually like it. 00:40:09.500 --> 00:40:10.280 You might like it. 00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:10.900 Yeah. 00:40:10.900 --> 00:40:11.900 I'll try it out. 00:40:11.900 --> 00:40:12.120 Yeah. 00:40:13.120 --> 00:40:18.620 So, well, since you started this, comics, I always thought comics were for like little 00:40:18.620 --> 00:40:20.940 kids because that's what I read as like little kid. 00:40:20.940 --> 00:40:22.520 I didn't read any of the serious comics. 00:40:22.520 --> 00:40:25.900 I read whatever, like simple stuff. 00:40:26.540 --> 00:40:28.440 You know, stuff like Garfield kind of thing. 00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:28.840 Yeah. 00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:30.120 It's like kiddie, kiddie stuff. 00:40:30.700 --> 00:40:36.020 So I never really took comics seriously until I watched Neil Gaiman's Masterclass on masterclass.com. 00:40:36.020 --> 00:40:43.820 And there was one chapter, like 20 minutes or so on how he made comics. 00:40:43.820 --> 00:40:51.060 He was talking about how he came up with a kind of a storyline, how the storyline interacts 00:40:51.060 --> 00:40:57.840 with the pictures and how even the location on the page and the size of those frames, I forgot 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:00.640 what they call them, like the frames, how they are different. 00:41:01.160 --> 00:41:07.620 And it had this example where he shows that like you have to turn the page to find out 00:41:07.620 --> 00:41:08.360 what's next. 00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:08.960 Yeah. 00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:14.640 And if you, and if you don't, like if you put it like on the previous page, it would like 00:41:14.640 --> 00:41:15.640 destroy the effect, right? 00:41:15.640 --> 00:41:19.980 So it has to be like, you know, put it, put in a certain order in a certain size and all. 00:41:19.980 --> 00:41:25.600 And also the art of it, like back in the 30 years ago, like there's one person who does 00:41:25.600 --> 00:41:29.620 the sketches, the other person does like the, like inking. 00:41:30.040 --> 00:41:33.340 Then the other person does the coloring, the other person does the, the lettering. 00:41:33.340 --> 00:41:38.140 And I was watching this, actually I watched that, I think two times. 00:41:38.140 --> 00:41:41.260 I couldn't believe my eyes that it's like an art form. 00:41:41.260 --> 00:41:41.780 Yeah. 00:41:41.780 --> 00:41:43.460 Like comics is an art form. 00:41:43.460 --> 00:41:48.920 During that time, I got the first Sandman book and I read it and I'm like, oh my God, 00:41:48.920 --> 00:41:50.080 it's just something else. 00:41:50.620 --> 00:41:54.080 Because you notice all of those details in there. 00:41:54.080 --> 00:41:54.300 Yeah. 00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:55.460 I noticed all of those details. 00:41:55.460 --> 00:41:55.980 Yes. 00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:57.080 And also the story itself. 00:41:57.080 --> 00:42:01.760 It took me a year to go through the entire collection of, of Sandman. 00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:02.560 Actually, I didn't buy them. 00:42:02.560 --> 00:42:05.920 I got them from the library, which I think Neil Gaiman is rich now. 00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:08.540 Unlike Jake, Jake, I like Jake now, right? 00:42:08.540 --> 00:42:10.440 Buy sprint, buy make time. 00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:12.480 Don't know what I'm talking about. 00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:13.380 Listen to episode four. 00:42:13.380 --> 00:42:19.220 So, but actually it's about Christmas time. 00:42:19.220 --> 00:42:22.980 I hope my wife gifts me the box set of the Sandman. 00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:26.540 I told her I wanted actually so that it would be a test of our marriage. 00:42:26.540 --> 00:42:27.160 Right. 00:42:27.160 --> 00:42:28.420 To see if she heard me. 00:42:28.420 --> 00:42:35.340 Well, a few years ago, my sister gave me the box set of all the Asterix comics. 00:42:35.340 --> 00:42:37.460 Those are my most favorite comics. 00:42:37.460 --> 00:42:38.780 I don't even know what they are. 00:42:38.780 --> 00:42:40.760 Oh man, you should read them. 00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:43.300 They're set in 50 BC. 00:42:43.300 --> 00:42:48.500 So at the height of the Roman Empire, when they're like, basically they have taken over 00:42:48.500 --> 00:42:52.080 all of France, which was Gaul at that time, right? 00:42:52.500 --> 00:42:59.160 And there's these, this small village of Gauls that are holding out against like big camps 00:42:59.160 --> 00:43:02.100 of Romans surrounding them, legionnaires. 00:43:02.100 --> 00:43:07.740 And it's because they have magic potion that gives them like superhuman strength, right? 00:43:07.740 --> 00:43:09.180 And it's hilarious. 00:43:09.180 --> 00:43:14.340 It's been, I don't know, maybe 60, 70 years since they were written. 00:43:14.340 --> 00:43:16.460 They still hold good to this day. 00:43:16.460 --> 00:43:17.440 It's really good. 00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:18.160 Wow. 00:43:18.160 --> 00:43:18.820 Yeah. 00:43:18.820 --> 00:43:19.320 Yeah. 00:43:19.700 --> 00:43:25.540 There are some kiddie stuff like Calvin and Hobbes that my son has a full box set, which 00:43:25.540 --> 00:43:26.820 I sometimes read with him. 00:43:26.820 --> 00:43:28.240 This is so good. 00:43:28.240 --> 00:43:32.540 I would argue Calvin and Hobbes is not just kiddie stuff. 00:43:32.540 --> 00:43:38.440 There's a lot of deep stuff in there that you continue to enjoy as you become an adult. 00:43:39.200 --> 00:43:42.260 So, you know, this guy called Daft Pilkey. 00:43:42.260 --> 00:43:43.120 Yeah. 00:43:43.120 --> 00:43:45.100 He is the author of Dog Man. 00:43:45.100 --> 00:43:45.620 Yeah. 00:43:45.620 --> 00:43:49.960 For those of you who don't have little children or who don't live in, you know, in the U.S. 00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:50.600 or Canada. 00:43:50.600 --> 00:43:56.120 So, Dog Man is a half dog, half man. 00:43:56.120 --> 00:43:56.960 Policeman. 00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:57.780 Policeman. 00:43:57.780 --> 00:43:58.020 Yeah. 00:43:58.020 --> 00:43:58.620 Police dog. 00:43:58.620 --> 00:44:02.760 So, basically, there was like a policeman with a police dog. 00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:10.200 And then there was like an explosion in which the head of the policeman dies, but his body 00:44:10.200 --> 00:44:16.140 survives and the head of the dog survives, but the body dies and the stitches. 00:44:16.140 --> 00:44:18.400 So, we got this character which is... 00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:18.940 Wait, wait, wait. 00:44:18.940 --> 00:44:21.560 Our episode just became explicit, by the way. 00:44:21.560 --> 00:44:22.660 Oh, yes. 00:44:22.660 --> 00:44:22.900 Yeah. 00:44:22.900 --> 00:44:25.680 We'll have to mark it because there's scenes of violence. 00:44:25.680 --> 00:44:26.360 Yes. 00:44:26.360 --> 00:44:28.740 Graphic violence. 00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:36.140 So, yeah, we have this funny-looking character which is like body of a man in police uniform 00:44:36.140 --> 00:44:39.680 and the head of the dog, which is very smart. 00:44:39.680 --> 00:44:46.460 He can't talk because he is a dog and he always judges squirrels, but he's like super smart 00:44:46.460 --> 00:44:46.800 and all. 00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:50.860 And he licks his the police head like crazy licks. 00:44:50.860 --> 00:44:51.200 Yeah. 00:44:51.200 --> 00:44:52.160 Yeah. 00:44:52.160 --> 00:44:54.680 And he does all sorts of crazy stuff. 00:44:54.680 --> 00:44:55.380 Yeah. 00:44:55.380 --> 00:44:57.660 And there are the characters like Pity, the evil cat. 00:44:57.660 --> 00:44:58.160 Yeah. 00:44:58.160 --> 00:45:01.240 That feels like robots that try to conquer the world. 00:45:01.240 --> 00:45:09.460 All the kind of typical superhero kind of stuff, but with lots and lots of poop and pee jokes. 00:45:09.460 --> 00:45:09.900 Yeah. 00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:11.800 It's just like unbelievable. 00:45:11.800 --> 00:45:15.520 I mean, I love them too, to be honest, yes. 00:45:15.520 --> 00:45:15.780 Yeah. 00:45:15.780 --> 00:45:17.060 There's also Captain Underpants, right? 00:45:17.060 --> 00:45:17.620 Yes. 00:45:17.620 --> 00:45:21.360 That people might have heard about because there is an animated movie. 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:22.700 It's also by Dove Pilkey. 00:45:22.700 --> 00:45:25.100 But I read all of the Dogmen. 00:45:25.100 --> 00:45:30.280 Actually, I read all of the Dogmen and Captain Underpants and Super Diaper Baby and whatever 00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:31.100 the other one is. 00:45:31.100 --> 00:45:33.340 We have to get them pre-release now. 00:45:33.340 --> 00:45:38.100 Like that's the one thing that my daughter knows what date it's coming out like two months 00:45:38.100 --> 00:45:38.520 before. 00:45:38.520 --> 00:45:39.660 Yeah. 00:45:39.660 --> 00:45:43.040 You see, like even girls read that because like as I was reading this, I was like, probably 00:45:43.040 --> 00:45:44.140 only boys would enjoy this. 00:45:44.140 --> 00:45:45.480 I'm like stereotyping right now. 00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:46.800 But it's all like poop jokes. 00:45:46.980 --> 00:45:50.000 Yeah, apparently everyone would enjoy that. 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:50.940 Yeah. 00:45:50.940 --> 00:45:57.720 But the thing is, as I'm reading this, like when my son was like really into Dogmen, he 00:45:57.720 --> 00:45:58.380 was maybe like seven. 00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:02.480 And he could read, but we would read together. 00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:03.600 I would read to him before bed. 00:46:03.600 --> 00:46:10.480 I would laugh my ass off at like adult references he puts in there, which my son just doesn't 00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:15.560 get, I can't come up with an example right now, but it's like he doesn't get it at all. 00:46:15.560 --> 00:46:21.180 And I read this and I'm like, oh my God, this is so good because it's like so disguised in 00:46:21.180 --> 00:46:22.460 between the lines, you know? 00:46:22.460 --> 00:46:24.480 And that's, I think the cool part, right? 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:29.220 Kids can laugh about the poop jokes, but parents appreciate the other side, not just the poop 00:46:29.220 --> 00:46:29.500 jokes. 00:46:29.500 --> 00:46:32.640 And Dov Pilkey, this guy, he's just so good at that. 00:46:33.140 --> 00:46:37.620 I went to back when I was working at Amazon a few years back. 00:46:37.620 --> 00:46:44.340 I mean, I was working there till this year or last 2022, but a few years back, there was 00:46:44.340 --> 00:46:45.900 a bring your kid to work day. 00:46:45.900 --> 00:46:49.500 I took her there and Dov Pilkey was there. 00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:53.960 He's so inspiring, like not just to kids, to anybody. 00:46:53.960 --> 00:46:57.720 Like he had a pretty difficult childhood and schooling and all that. 00:46:57.720 --> 00:47:01.380 He has ADHD or dyslexia or something like that. 00:47:01.380 --> 00:47:01.580 Yeah. 00:47:01.580 --> 00:47:01.820 Yeah. 00:47:01.820 --> 00:47:02.140 Yeah. 00:47:02.300 --> 00:47:05.880 And his teachers were like pretty much harassing him. 00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:12.100 He's got a lot of failures with his comics before landing up with like a hit, right? 00:47:12.100 --> 00:47:15.960 It's really inspiring how he tells that story. 00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:26.340 And the amazing part was he told this story while drawing up that story as a cartoon for 00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:29.140 us who were present at that session, like live. 00:47:29.140 --> 00:47:30.920 And it was so good. 00:47:30.980 --> 00:47:32.280 It was so, so good. 00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:41.240 The other thing I think he does is he's normalizing a lot of like things that you don't expect in 00:47:41.240 --> 00:47:48.280 super hit comic books, like the squiggly lettering, or he just makes mistakes and cuts them and 00:47:48.280 --> 00:47:49.200 rewrites them. 00:47:49.740 --> 00:47:51.080 Just like what we do with our podcast, right? 00:47:51.080 --> 00:47:52.080 Yeah, exactly. 00:47:52.080 --> 00:47:57.380 But he shows the world and especially kids that it's okay, right? 00:47:57.380 --> 00:47:58.000 That's how you start. 00:47:58.000 --> 00:47:59.000 Yeah. 00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:01.500 And it's okay to make those mistakes. 00:48:01.500 --> 00:48:03.200 So yeah, I really like that. 00:48:03.200 --> 00:48:05.960 Yeah, that's, that's actually a very good point. 00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:10.000 And I'll find that episode that I listened to. 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:12.920 Like he, he gave, he doesn't give many interviews, I believe. 00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:13.460 Right. 00:48:13.460 --> 00:48:18.680 Um, and I found like back whenever I was like in the dog man, like five years ago, three 00:48:18.680 --> 00:48:25.760 years ago, I found an interview of his where he talks about his process and his childhood 00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:34.320 and ADHD and living in the cave or not living a cave, he goes to, to a cave in Japan, like, like he goes, 00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:37.560 yeah, he goes into that cave and like draws that stuff in there. 00:48:37.560 --> 00:48:42.360 I think he has to take a kayak or something to go into that cave because it's accessible through water only. 00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:45.440 It was just so fascinating to hear all that. 00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.560 So I'll find that episode, I'll link the show notes. 00:48:47.560 --> 00:48:48.320 Yeah. 00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:49.160 Yeah, please. 00:48:49.160 --> 00:48:50.420 I haven't heard that too. 00:48:50.420 --> 00:48:51.200 That'll be fun. 00:48:51.200 --> 00:48:52.000 Yeah. 00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:54.160 That was very, very, very insightful for me. 00:48:54.420 --> 00:48:58.880 So speaking of that, Amazon's Meet the Author series where they like invited the authors 00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:02.340 where employees could go and like, listen to fish balls. 00:49:02.340 --> 00:49:02.940 Yeah. 00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:03.780 Fish balls, they were called. 00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:04.360 Okay. 00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:08.640 Yeah, I've only been to one, I think, because I would only look at familiar names 00:49:08.640 --> 00:49:12.220 and then I think folks like Neil Gaiman would be like oversubscribed. 00:49:12.220 --> 00:49:13.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:14.400 Everybody knows him. 00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:17.940 So I was at one by Chuck Palahniuk, who wrote The Fight Club. 00:49:17.940 --> 00:49:18.740 Oh, okay. 00:49:18.740 --> 00:49:19.280 The Fight Club. 00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:21.640 Yeah, the movie that's based on his novel, The Fight Club. 00:49:21.640 --> 00:49:22.280 Okay. 00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:25.040 And he has other good stuff that I read like as a teenager. 00:49:25.040 --> 00:49:28.060 And I remember listening to him and he was just so weird. 00:49:28.060 --> 00:49:32.640 The way he was like talking about things and all that violence that he is putting into his 00:49:32.640 --> 00:49:37.100 books and The Fight Club comic book just came out, which by the way, I read, I didn't like 00:49:37.100 --> 00:49:38.820 it, but it's not the point. 00:49:39.340 --> 00:49:44.780 I remember that sitting in the room and then they, like, it's a huge hall with maybe like 00:49:44.780 --> 00:49:49.100 two or 300 people in there and he's on the stage and they open the floor for questions. 00:49:49.100 --> 00:49:54.480 And I remember like, you know, I went to the mic, I was in the line, maybe two or three people 00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:55.140 in front of me. 00:49:55.140 --> 00:49:56.340 And then there are people at the other mic. 00:49:56.560 --> 00:49:59.140 So I was maybe standing for 10 to 15 minutes to ask my question. 00:49:59.140 --> 00:50:00.220 Yeah. 00:50:00.220 --> 00:50:06.920 He was talking about when you like, you really sort of fucked up and how the darkness comes 00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:13.960 out in the, kind of in the art and that kind of the darkness helps you create the art. 00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:15.560 If I'm not mistaken, that's what he was talking about. 00:50:15.560 --> 00:50:21.820 And my question was about like, how do you not let the darkness consume you and destroy 00:50:21.820 --> 00:50:22.140 you? 00:50:22.140 --> 00:50:24.480 Because that's exactly what I was doing with my music. 00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:29.540 I was writing a lot of music at the time that even now, if I listen to it, it kind of gets 00:50:29.540 --> 00:50:32.900 me down, you know, but it was therapeutic at the time. 00:50:32.900 --> 00:50:33.520 So yeah. 00:50:33.520 --> 00:50:36.320 And I was staying there just about to ask the question. 00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:40.740 And I remember I was just all shaking because, you know, I felt like, oh my God, this is like 00:50:40.740 --> 00:50:45.860 Chad Palahniuk, like, and he's like, he's watching me and somehow I managed to ask that 00:50:45.860 --> 00:50:49.640 question and he gave me, I forgot what his, what, what his answer was. 00:50:49.640 --> 00:50:50.120 Yeah. 00:50:50.120 --> 00:50:50.780 He answered to me. 00:50:50.780 --> 00:50:57.060 And I just remember that moment of like, he's just a normal person who can talk to like 00:50:57.060 --> 00:50:58.140 mere mortals. 00:50:58.140 --> 00:51:02.220 And I think that changed my perspective about like celebrities and stuff. 00:51:02.220 --> 00:51:07.120 Hey, I had one more thing on this movie, comic, TV thing. 00:51:07.120 --> 00:51:08.180 Yeah. 00:51:08.180 --> 00:51:09.040 Let's make it the last thing. 00:51:09.040 --> 00:51:09.740 Yeah. 00:51:10.140 --> 00:51:15.000 So you said, I should watch the Sandman and see how it goes. 00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:20.240 Did you happen to catch, there's a foundation TV series that came on Apple TV. 00:51:20.240 --> 00:51:21.440 Did you, did you see that? 00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:22.440 Oh, I had no idea. 00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:27.420 So similar to what you said, I, I, I didn't get hooked into it. 00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:28.820 I watched it. 00:51:28.820 --> 00:51:35.920 I gave it like about five episodes and then I gave up after that because it changes. 00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:37.120 Just to give context, right? 00:51:37.220 --> 00:51:44.820 Foundation is the book series by Isaac Asimov about that civilization tens of thousands years 00:51:44.820 --> 00:51:47.600 from now where they live on different planets. 00:51:47.600 --> 00:51:52.760 I mean, all these people live on different planets and they search for earth for their origin. 00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:53.260 Yeah. 00:51:53.260 --> 00:51:55.000 Where, where, where everybody comes from. 00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:59.180 It's a fascinating book series, like I think 13 or 15 books in total. 00:51:59.180 --> 00:52:04.800 So, oh yeah, there's probably more than, so what ended up happening is he wrote foundation. 00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:08.600 Then he wrote foundation and earth and a few other books. 00:52:08.600 --> 00:52:12.380 And then later, like this is over a period of 30 years. 00:52:12.380 --> 00:52:18.840 He writes a book that gets connected to this timeline somewhere, sometimes in the future, 00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:20.100 sometimes in the past. 00:52:20.240 --> 00:52:28.880 But you read like all of his books and they're sort of the robot series and the foundation series. 00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:30.960 There's a lot of like different series, right? 00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:32.760 They just connect all of them. 00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:33.480 Yeah. 00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:38.220 I mean, this is like my Iliad or my Bible or whatever. 00:52:38.220 --> 00:52:40.560 I thought you said my Iliad. 00:52:42.300 --> 00:52:49.760 You know what I found really jarring about the Isimov's books is like there are two ways to read the books. 00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:55.060 You can either read in the chronology as he wrote them, which will be like you will jump in between series. 00:52:55.060 --> 00:53:00.840 Or you could read them by like the timeline of the time in the book itself, right? 00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:06.540 Where it's like you read the first of foundations and you read, you know, I guess you start with the robot and you read the empire, then you read the foundation. 00:53:06.540 --> 00:53:07.160 Yeah. 00:53:07.160 --> 00:53:08.940 So what that's how I read them. 00:53:09.500 --> 00:53:15.760 And what I found jarring there is that, let's say you read the book that was written in whatever, 1968 or something, where he was still a young man. 00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:24.420 And then you read the next book, which was written maybe like 20 years from there, where he is like more of an adult. 00:53:24.420 --> 00:53:27.980 And there's just so much more sex in there. 00:53:27.980 --> 00:53:29.480 I don't know if you noticed that. 00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:32.160 For me, it was just so jarring because like the language was so different. 00:53:32.160 --> 00:53:38.760 It felt almost like it's a different author because like you read one book and there is like absolutely no sex in there. 00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:45.020 And then the next one, it's like there's just so much details that you're like, well, I can't hear from sci-fi. 00:53:45.020 --> 00:53:46.360 That's with Fifty Shades of Grey. 00:53:47.560 --> 00:53:51.800 I do remember like some of the robot series towards the end. 00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:52.820 There was a lot of it. 00:53:52.820 --> 00:53:53.040 Yeah. 00:53:53.040 --> 00:53:53.620 Yeah. 00:53:53.620 --> 00:53:56.580 I actually read them in the published order. 00:53:56.580 --> 00:54:00.120 And then by that time I was already like, I loved it. 00:54:00.120 --> 00:54:03.200 So I went back and read it in the chronological order. 00:54:03.200 --> 00:54:03.940 Yeah. 00:54:03.940 --> 00:54:04.620 It's awesome. 00:54:04.620 --> 00:54:09.420 By the way, if anybody who's listening, if you have never heard SMOF. 00:54:09.420 --> 00:54:09.920 Still listening. 00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:12.540 Yeah, still listening. 00:54:12.540 --> 00:54:20.500 If you haven't read SMOF, I'd say go check out the short story called Nightfall. 00:54:20.500 --> 00:54:23.340 That was my introduction to SMOF. 00:54:23.340 --> 00:54:24.060 And that was like- 00:54:24.060 --> 00:54:25.000 Oh my God, it's so good. 00:54:25.100 --> 00:54:26.780 Mind-bendingly, yeah. 00:54:26.780 --> 00:54:28.580 It's only like 20 pages or so. 00:54:28.580 --> 00:54:29.780 It's like 20 pages, yeah. 00:54:29.780 --> 00:54:30.620 Yeah. 00:54:30.620 --> 00:54:33.920 And another one that's really good, it's called The End of Eternity. 00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:35.620 End of Eternity, yeah. 00:54:35.660 --> 00:54:36.740 That's about time travel. 00:54:36.740 --> 00:54:38.200 Also maybe 20 pages long. 00:54:38.200 --> 00:54:38.660 Yeah. 00:54:38.660 --> 00:54:41.800 Also kind of mind-bending, the time travel paradoxes. 00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:46.860 And then once you get hooked, then like the robot series and everything, yeah, you'll get hooked into it. 00:54:46.860 --> 00:54:47.080 Yeah. 00:54:47.080 --> 00:54:50.840 Okay, coming back to this, Foundation TV series. 00:54:50.840 --> 00:54:55.320 Do give it a watch and let me know how you like it, because I'm interested. 00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:58.300 Like you're interested in hearing like Sandman, how would I take it? 00:54:58.300 --> 00:54:58.560 Yeah. 00:54:58.560 --> 00:55:00.680 All right, so let's do this. 00:55:00.680 --> 00:55:02.340 Let's finish the recording now. 00:55:02.340 --> 00:55:04.060 Publish this as a bonus episode. 00:55:04.060 --> 00:55:04.620 Yes. 00:55:04.620 --> 00:55:18.140 Yeah, and I guess we'll still need to, you know, we still need to close this with, if you're still listening to this, and if you enjoyed it or, you know, didn't enjoy it, but for whatever reason is still listening, please send us a note. 00:55:18.140 --> 00:55:21.020 Actually, I just created an Instagram account. 00:55:21.020 --> 00:55:24.660 It's product, or not product, the Breakfast Club. 00:55:24.660 --> 00:55:28.740 Podcast Hacks. 00:55:28.740 --> 00:55:30.640 Yeah, Podcast Hacks. 00:55:30.640 --> 00:55:31.240 Product Hacks. 00:55:31.240 --> 00:55:33.420 Yeah, Podcast Hacks. 00:55:33.420 --> 00:55:35.220 So, yeah, you can just send me a direct message. 00:55:35.220 --> 00:55:39.140 I guess, unless by the time you publish this, I have like 100,000 followers. 00:55:39.140 --> 00:55:41.620 I'll read and respond. 00:55:41.620 --> 00:55:44.620 Or, you know, like tag us on Twitter. 00:55:44.620 --> 00:55:46.500 Arnav is mostly like the Twitter guy. 00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:48.540 If Twitter still exists by the time this is published. 00:55:48.540 --> 00:55:50.360 If not, I'm on Mastodon also. 00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:52.000 Yeah, on Mastodon. 00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:55.540 Then also our sub stack, I think there is a way to leave comments there. 00:55:55.980 --> 00:56:01.360 And also you can write us at hello at metacastpodcast.com. 00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:02.740 And please subscribe. 00:56:02.740 --> 00:56:04.640 Give us five stars. 00:56:04.640 --> 00:56:05.420 Yes. 00:56:05.420 --> 00:56:05.960 Yeah, yeah. 00:56:05.960 --> 00:56:06.380 Yeah. 00:56:06.380 --> 00:56:13.160 I mean, if you're still listening, it's been like almost close to an hour, then you're clearly like, this is five stars for you. 00:56:13.540 --> 00:56:14.160 Exactly, right? 00:56:14.160 --> 00:56:18.040 But also it's like, if you buy something on Amazon, right? 00:56:18.040 --> 00:56:20.480 If you enjoy it, just leave it a five star. 00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:22.960 If you don't enjoy it, just return it. 00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:24.460 And, right? 00:56:24.900 --> 00:56:30.140 So, in this case, well, just unsubscribe instead of giving us a one star review, please. 00:56:30.140 --> 00:56:31.420 No, no. 00:56:31.420 --> 00:56:33.460 I think keep listening, even if it's, yeah. 00:56:33.460 --> 00:56:36.100 I think if you're still here, like, give us two five star ratings. 00:56:36.100 --> 00:56:39.920 Ask your mom to give us a five star rating, too. 00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:42.380 And the rest of your family, too. 00:56:42.380 --> 00:56:45.860 Create a fake account and give us a five star rating from that account as well. 00:56:45.860 --> 00:56:46.400 Right. 00:56:46.460 --> 00:56:58.560 But I am actually genuinely interested in hearing from people, if anybody is listening again, about this episode, because we had a pretty clear plan, right? 00:56:58.560 --> 00:57:06.580 Initially, we started with, we'll have a biweekly podcast of a guest podcaster coming in there. 00:57:06.580 --> 00:57:09.080 Then we changed it to, okay, let's do it weekly. 00:57:09.080 --> 00:57:12.540 We'll still have the biweekly podcaster come in as a guest. 00:57:12.960 --> 00:57:19.320 And every other week, we'll do a meta-sode where we're talking about our reflections on that episode. 00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:21.020 And we'll call that meta-sode. 00:57:21.020 --> 00:57:25.340 And now, I think this one was, like, we didn't talk about podcasting at all. 00:57:25.340 --> 00:57:26.900 This is not a meta-sode. 00:57:26.900 --> 00:57:28.380 This is not a guest episode. 00:57:28.380 --> 00:57:31.760 I think this might be one of those prime episodes, Ilya. 00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:35.200 Oh, I love that. 00:57:35.200 --> 00:57:40.560 Yeah. 00:57:40.780 --> 00:57:44.520 So, like, a year later, our podcast is due to Jacob and Jonathan. 00:57:44.520 --> 00:57:46.120 Yeah. 00:57:46.120 --> 00:57:48.560 Path Dependence is what it's about. 00:57:48.560 --> 00:58:00.780 But I am seriously interested in hearing, if people seriously like things like this, where we discuss whatever the heck comes up, we would love to chat more about this sort of stuff. 00:58:00.780 --> 00:58:12.760 We also talked about, Ilya, I think, about doing some sort of live, like a Twitch stream or something like that, where we can have audience asking us questions or offering their opinions right there. 00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:13.660 That would be pretty cool. 00:58:13.660 --> 00:58:14.080 Yeah. 00:58:14.080 --> 00:58:15.760 It's basically like we publish a sub stack. 00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:18.460 And two days later, we have three likes. 00:58:18.460 --> 00:58:19.380 Yes. 00:58:19.520 --> 00:58:20.780 One of which is mine. 00:58:20.780 --> 00:58:22.000 The other one is Arnab's. 00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:22.440 Yeah. 00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:24.940 And the third one, I think it's one of your friends. 00:58:24.940 --> 00:58:29.280 I mean, we haven't sent it to anybody other than our friends. 00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:30.700 So, yeah. 00:58:30.700 --> 00:58:31.480 Yeah. 00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:32.140 Yeah. 00:58:32.140 --> 00:58:36.380 Anyway, so, yeah, I guess we have to stop the recording now. 00:58:36.380 --> 00:58:38.520 And I actually enjoyed this one. 00:58:38.520 --> 00:58:39.180 Yeah. 00:58:39.180 --> 00:58:40.240 I love this one. 00:58:40.240 --> 00:58:41.060 It was awesome. 00:58:41.160 --> 00:58:41.320 Yeah. 00:58:41.320 --> 00:58:43.100 This one was very good. 00:58:43.100 --> 00:58:44.040 Okay, cool. 00:58:44.040 --> 00:58:45.160 Till later.