WEBVTT 00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:06.800 When we label people, we either extend them beyond what these people really are in that 00:00:06.800 --> 00:00:12.720 specific capacity, or we diminish them by chopping off important parts of who they are. 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:16.880 That analogy, I think, is how I think about labels these days. 00:00:16.880 --> 00:00:20.640 I just don't want to put any labels. I think the only valid label about me is my name. 00:00:27.360 --> 00:00:31.280 Hello, welcome to Metacast, the podcast about podcasting. 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:38.560 This is episode 11. It is a Metasode, or Meta episode, where we talk about our experience 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:45.520 running the podcast. And today we are going to discuss what went well and what didn't go well 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:54.000 in the last recording that we had with the Hearts in Taiwan hosts, Annie and Angela. And I'm Ilya Bezdilev, 00:00:54.000 --> 00:01:00.160 and with me is Arnab Deka, my co-host from sunny Vancouver, where there was a lot of snow today. 00:01:00.160 --> 00:01:07.680 Yeah, I started that day. We were going to record this at 7am, I think, my time. But I woke up at 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:13.280 6.30 and saw the amount of snow and said, okay, I need to go out and shovel. We live close to a 00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:16.400 school. So I feel like I have to do it every time it snows. 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:20.960 So in Canada, there is a rule that you have to clean the sidewalks in front of your house, 00:01:20.960 --> 00:01:21.760 is that how it works? 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:26.960 It's not Canada, dude. It's in the US too. Maybe you just... 00:01:26.960 --> 00:01:30.720 Well, not in Florida. I've never heard about this law in Florida, man. 00:01:30.720 --> 00:01:36.320 Yeah, yeah. Not in Florida, but that's probably because it doesn't snow. Just wait maybe five 00:01:36.320 --> 00:01:42.080 years. The way the whole climate change and everything is going, you start getting snow there. Yeah. 00:01:42.080 --> 00:01:49.760 Oh, we had a very cold winter, actually. It was plus four Celsius, which is like 38, 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:58.400 I think, Fahrenheit is how low it was in December, I believe, just before Christmas. Man, it was so 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:04.160 cold. That's pretty much like Vancouver or Seattle, Pacific Northwest kind of weather for the winter. 00:02:04.160 --> 00:02:10.560 Yeah, I think we didn't get to talk about this. So I have this air conditioner unit that is both 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:16.880 heater and AC. Basically all of the units in my house, they are these dual purpose heaters and coolers. 00:02:16.880 --> 00:02:24.880 On one of the nights, my heater in the bedroom started to emit smoke, you know, and smell of 00:02:24.880 --> 00:02:27.680 burnt plastic, kind of burnt wires. Oh yeah, I remember. 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:32.880 I thought it was wiring, maybe it got overheated or something. So yeah, I spent half a day figuring 00:02:32.880 --> 00:02:36.800 out... Well, we had to sleep in another room, but then I was figuring out with the electrician 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:42.960 what was going on and all that stuff. What eventually I did is I called the AC guys, they came in, they 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:50.640 disassembled the unit and they found a bunch of junk on the heater coils. So apparently in the 12 or 13 00:02:50.640 --> 00:02:59.120 years of this unit's existence, nobody ever turned on the heater. Because they told me the coils are like 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:05.280 new, but apparently there was some junk that was left by the installation workers. It was not glued well. 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:12.160 And when the heater was turned on, the glue melted and the junk, some kind of like tape or whatever, 00:03:12.160 --> 00:03:17.600 it fell on the coils, it burned, and then it sent it through the system into the ducts. 00:03:17.600 --> 00:03:21.840 And it took probably over a week to get rid of the smell in the bedroom. 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:26.320 Wow. So this is when it was cold in Miami? 00:03:26.320 --> 00:03:27.120 It was cold, yes. 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:28.960 So the heater automatically turned on. 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:33.840 Yeah. And the guys who came in, they told me that it was the coldest winter since 1996. 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:36.640 It's also crazy how quickly you get used to living in the warm climate. 00:03:36.640 --> 00:03:43.680 All right. So let's get to the podcasting stuff. Because that's one thing that I wanted to discuss 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:51.040 about the last episode. I was editing it yesterday, and I think we didn't get to podcasting stuff. 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:56.960 In an hour, I think the first hour of the episode is all just to talk about the culture 00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:02.080 and other stuff. It's interesting because also Annie and Angela are really nice people to talk 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:07.920 about this. They know a lot about this. But what I was questioning is, let's say somebody who runs 00:04:07.920 --> 00:04:14.000 a podcast about sports or something. They want to listen to us to learn more about how they can make 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:19.600 their podcast better to learn about other people's experiences. And here we are talking about Chinese 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:24.160 names and Taiwan independence and all that stuff, which is interesting, but it may not be interesting 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:28.400 to that particular person. I don't know. Maybe to a big part of our listeners, actually, it's not 00:04:28.400 --> 00:04:33.600 going to be interesting because that's not what they came here for. And it might actually turn them off. 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:40.560 It actually goes back to something we discussed early on. What or who are we doing the podcast for? 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:47.360 Right. And in my head, we're still doing this for ourselves because it's fun. We're learning things. 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:55.360 The number of listeners that we get are not like enormous. Right. So I don't really care as much. 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:57.360 Keep talking. I look up how many listeners we have. 00:04:58.960 --> 00:05:06.320 Yeah. So this is one thing that I really like about our podcast is every podcast where we have guests, 00:05:06.320 --> 00:05:10.720 the podcast turns into a bit like their podcast. Yeah. 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:16.560 Right. And as a listener, you start to see different styles and voices and opinions 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:22.960 in every episode, which is not very common in podcasting. It's usually very typically, 00:05:22.960 --> 00:05:28.880 very tightly controlled by the single host or sometimes a couple of hosts. So I actually really 00:05:28.880 --> 00:05:35.200 liked it. It was a very deep episode in some ways. We discussed a lot of deep things that I would not 00:05:35.200 --> 00:05:41.760 have even ventured to say out loud, much less publicly in a podcast. And there were lots of personal 00:05:41.760 --> 00:05:48.880 opinions, stories. I really liked it. But I do get your point. If people are listening to this podcast 00:05:48.880 --> 00:05:55.760 with the hope to learn and grow as a podcaster, then you probably didn't get much of it. You kind 00:05:55.760 --> 00:06:02.240 of turned it off after a while. And if you are one of those, leave us a review or send us an email 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:08.240 so that we know what kind of content we're looking for. I think until then, again, Ilya, 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:13.040 give us the numbers. But to me, it's like we're doing this for ourselves and it needs to be 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:16.000 fun and we need to grow ourselves with it. 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:20.240 Yeah. I think you're bringing up a very good point about doing it for ourselves. 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:25.120 It's just the product manager in me, my ego. It's like, oh, how did we make it more popular 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:30.240 so more people listen to it? But I think you bring a very valid point. So talking about the stats, 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:39.600 I'm looking at Anchor where we host our podcast. And so far we've had 1200 plays across all of our 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:48.240 episodes. Most episodes are in the range of 90 listens. Brian McCullough one was like 400 or so. 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:54.000 Yeah. Brian McCullough is 420. Jake and John then is 154. That excludes YouTube. That's just the 00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:00.080 podcasting apps. And between you and me, we are not even sure if it includes all sorts of podcasting 00:07:00.080 --> 00:07:05.920 apps or not. Yeah. The metrics around podcasting. Maybe we should just do an episode around this 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:11.840 sometime. Yeah. Maybe we should do like a breakdown of all of our stuff and write up a newsletter and 00:07:11.840 --> 00:07:17.680 also talk about it on a podcast. Yeah. One thing I would like to ask our listeners, because we do have 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:23.200 people who listen to the entire episode. So far we have not got a single message from anyone on any 00:07:23.200 --> 00:07:29.040 platform except for maybe our friends. So if you're listening to this, send us some feedback. We don't 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:34.480 care if it's a review, five star, one star, it just doesn't matter. Just send us an email at 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:42.320 hello@metacastpodcast.com or reach to us on Twitter or Instagram. It would be really nice to hear from 00:07:42.320 --> 00:07:52.240 someone because we've been broadcasting into the ether. And yes, for sure, you and I have a lot of fun. 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:59.440 But as I was editing the last episode in the last few days, I didn't enjoy the edits. And I'm like, 00:07:59.440 --> 00:08:05.120 okay, so I'm doing the work because recording is fun. Editing is work. I'm like, what am I doing this 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:11.600 work for? On that point, you have been talking about creating a masterclass or something like that 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:17.760 about creating a podcast, right? And that goes from the very beginning to editing and post-production 00:08:17.760 --> 00:08:25.120 and all that. If that's something that would be of interest to our listeners, drop us an email or, 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:30.640 you know, our website, metacastpodcast.com. If you go there, then all the episodes will show up. 00:08:30.640 --> 00:08:37.040 You can leave a comment there or you know us on Twitter, Instagram, all sorts of ways. 00:08:37.040 --> 00:08:43.520 So yeah, it's a nice plug for the course. I've not started writing it up yet, but we've talked about 00:08:43.520 --> 00:08:47.920 it for a while. So yeah, let's get into info business and make some money with our podcast. 00:08:47.920 --> 00:08:54.640 And we could talk about that course too, if we end up launching this. So we record this at the end of 00:08:54.640 --> 00:09:00.320 February, the episode will probably come out at the end of March. Let's talk about the last recording. 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:04.000 It was over a month ago when we did the recording of the Annie and Angela episode. 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.880 We edited it a few days ago. 00:09:06.880 --> 00:09:08.080 Jan 28th. 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:09.840 Jan 28th. Okay. Actually a month ago. 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:10.160 Yeah. 00:09:10.160 --> 00:09:16.880 So we had a bit of time to digest things and approach this kind of impartially. 00:09:16.880 --> 00:09:22.000 I would like to start with some of my takeaways. Maybe we can go one after another and alternate. 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:27.280 The first thing I have written down is how Annie and Angela, they are really transparent in their 00:09:27.280 --> 00:09:33.760 podcast. They really talk about their stuff, their children, their parents so openly. And when they 00:09:33.760 --> 00:09:40.640 came on our podcast, they were talking about those same topics very openly as well, which for me was 00:09:40.640 --> 00:09:47.600 like, wow, you're really putting yourselves out there. And that was very encouraging, especially 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:53.520 given some of the cultural aspect where they were saying how their culture, the culture where they 00:09:53.520 --> 00:09:59.840 grew up. It's like, you have to be an A+ student and all that. I think being vulnerable is almost the 00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:05.600 opposite of being an A+ student. And unless you want to be an A+ student in being vulnerable to the 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:07.600 world, you know what I mean? Yeah. 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:11.520 So yeah, it was very, very encouraging and heartwarming too. 00:10:11.520 --> 00:10:16.560 Right. I think just generally the whole episode, I think I already said it once, 00:10:16.560 --> 00:10:23.360 but this was my top feeling too. I really loved recording it. First of all, talking with them. 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:32.720 And then when I listened yesterday, it was such a flowing, nice chat, going deep into cultural 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:39.360 things with personal opinions from all of us that I really liked it. I never thought that we would 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:43.520 record that kind of an episode on this podcast, but hey, we did. 00:10:43.520 --> 00:10:50.320 Yeah. I also like how they actually posed questions back to us. I remember when I asked them, what does it 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:55.920 mean to be Taiwanese? I think she brought it back. Like, what does it mean to be Russian or what does it 00:10:55.920 --> 00:11:01.920 mean to be Indian and how we fit into that culture? So that ended up being more of a conversation as 00:11:01.920 --> 00:11:07.680 opposed to an interview. It was nice. Yeah. Let me take the next one. This is sort of related to 00:11:07.680 --> 00:11:13.360 that first one too. In the episode, you should listen, by the way, if you have not heard listener 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:19.120 and you're listening to this episode, go listen to that episode. We talked about who do you identify 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:24.800 as, right? And you and I both answered that question. And then later on, I was thinking 00:11:24.800 --> 00:11:33.360 about it more that people identify with their nationality, race, or ethnicity. They also identify 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:40.960 with their work. They identify with their religion. I don't want to rehash the whole topic, but now that 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:48.640 I've said all those things, who do you identify yourself as? And I have a second, I think more 00:11:48.640 --> 00:11:55.840 interesting question there. How do you keep connected to other people that you identify with? 00:11:55.840 --> 00:12:02.720 Is it a question for me? Yeah. I've recently done two spiritual retreats where I had an opportunity to 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:07.760 meet some really interesting people from the walks of life that I wouldn't otherwise be exposed to. 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:14.640 And also I had the opportunity to really let my ego go through the experiences that I had. 00:12:14.640 --> 00:12:19.920 So answering that question, on one hand, it's actually very easy because I sort of know who I am now. 00:12:19.920 --> 00:12:29.760 I can feel who I am, but putting this in words is difficult because up until maybe six months ago, 00:12:29.760 --> 00:12:37.360 before I went to my first retreat, I really identified as a Russian guy from technology background, 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:45.520 who is also a musician, a parent, a bunch of labels. And I didn't really engage with many people outside 00:12:45.520 --> 00:12:50.320 of the Russian community in the US, except work, obviously it's work you engage with whoever you 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:55.840 work with. But then going on that retreat was so interesting because there were so many people from 00:12:55.840 --> 00:13:01.120 different countries who I really connected with. I actually made a really good friend who is from 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:07.360 England, currently lives in Switzerland, which I thought wasn't possible because of my culture. I thought that 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:12.640 Russian culture is my culture and that's going to be like that until the end of my days, which 00:13:13.520 --> 00:13:19.120 I was proven wrong and it feels great. It's kind of a long-winded answer to your question, which isn't 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:26.480 even an answer, I guess. But I don't even know who to identify myself with or how to identify myself as. 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:34.320 It's just, I am who I am in the moment. Identification almost feels meaningless. It's like a shortcut. 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:39.520 If you are in a certain environment and people want to know something about you, you can use some 00:13:39.520 --> 00:13:42.160 identification like, oh, I work for Amazon or Google or something. 00:13:42.160 --> 00:13:44.800 That facet of yourself. 00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:48.240 Yes, because in a professional environment, right? Or maybe if you're like in a multicultural 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:54.720 environment where people talk about their ethnicity, I can say I'm Russian, but that's just such a small 00:13:54.720 --> 00:14:00.080 aspect of my personality or your personality for that matter. It's almost meaningless. It's 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:04.960 almost like I don't want to say this. So one last thing before I pass it back to you. Have you heard 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:06.800 of the Procrustian bed concept? 00:14:06.800 --> 00:14:07.360 No. 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:12.640 There was actually a book by Nassim Nicholas Taleb called The Bed of Procrustis or The Procrustian 00:14:12.640 --> 00:14:19.200 Bed. I forgot how exactly it's called. The story goes that somewhere in ancient times, 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:25.120 Greece or Rome or whatever, there was a guy named Procrustis who would invite all travelers to his 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:31.360 house as they were passing by. And he would treat them and give them meals and wine and all that, 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:39.200 and give them lodging for the night. The catch was that he had just one bed that everybody had to 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:44.720 fit in. If you were too short, they would stretch you so you fit that bed. 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:45.280 What? 00:14:45.280 --> 00:14:45.680 Yes. 00:14:45.680 --> 00:14:47.840 What do you mean stretch you? 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:53.200 I guess when people are tortured, they're being stretched. So basically they would tie you to the 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:58.000 bed and stretch you so that you actually become the length of the bed because you're too short to 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.760 fit in there. But more easier to understand if you're too long for the bed, they would 00:15:01.760 --> 00:15:04.560 chop the parts of your body that make you too long. 00:15:04.560 --> 00:15:04.720 Oh my gosh. 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:08.400 I thought you were going to say they would make you fold your feet in or something. 00:15:08.400 --> 00:15:13.200 No, that's too humane, you know? So the whole point of the story that Taleb makes there is 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:20.480 that's what we do with labels. When we label people, we either extend them beyond what these people 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:27.440 really are in that specific capacity, or we diminish them by chopping off important parts of who they are. 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:32.640 That analogy, I think, is how I think about labels these days. I just don't want to put 00:15:32.640 --> 00:15:35.440 any labels. I think the only valid label about me is my name. 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:43.280 Yeah. Especially I think in today's world where everything is so connected, right? Maybe in a 00:15:43.280 --> 00:15:51.040 world, maybe 25, 30 years ago, you lived in a place where most people around you were like you. 00:15:51.760 --> 00:15:56.720 Today, it's not like that anymore. Especially like you go online and you have all sorts of 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:02.720 communities you are part of, right? And those really shape who you are. And that's part of 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:05.840 your big parts of your identity. I love that answer. 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:11.680 Yeah. You can show different facets of yourself in different communities. If I go and play the 00:16:11.680 --> 00:16:17.840 guitar with a bunch of other people, I don't have to talk about work, for example. So what's your 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:18.720 answer to that question? 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:25.520 I was similar. I think you put it in a really nice, crisp way. I was struggling to come up with 00:16:25.520 --> 00:16:35.200 one way to define what my internal projection of myself is. I was thinking all these things like 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:40.720 your work or your nationality. I'm not a very religious person, so that's not a big one for me. 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:47.200 Those are very common, but also like what kind of things you like to do. I'm big into sports. You 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:52.000 know that. Actually, our next episode that we are recording today will be something about that. We'll 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.960 talk about it when it comes to that. Very excited. 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:56.480 A Saunders football club. 00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:56.880 Yes. 00:16:56.880 --> 00:16:59.040 That's a big deal, man. 00:16:59.040 --> 00:16:59.520 Yeah. 00:16:59.520 --> 00:16:59.840 Okay. 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:08.240 So I stay connected with a lot of soccer and all that through Reddit. I love playing sports. And 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:13.520 till the time I was in Seattle, I used to play cricket regularly. Here, I'm not playing much anymore, 00:17:13.520 --> 00:17:19.440 but I'm playing tennis quite a lot. The things that I like to do, like hiking and all that, 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:26.880 all of those make who I am. Like you said, it's not like one thing you can say that defines who you 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:27.360 are. 00:17:27.360 --> 00:17:32.240 Speaking of labels, when you said cricket, I had this flashback to my time in the jungle 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:35.520 where you had all these crickets going up at night. 00:17:35.520 --> 00:17:36.400 Right. Yeah. 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:40.400 By the way, you were in Peru, right? 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:40.960 Yeah. 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.400 Yes. We can leave that discussion for some other time. 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:46.480 Yeah. Let's not go too far. 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:51.840 But yeah, that was a great trip. The listeners, if you're curious, you can send us an email. We can 00:17:51.840 --> 00:17:55.840 talk about that one-on-one. I'm not just quite yet ready to discuss this on record. 00:17:55.840 --> 00:18:02.240 One thing you mentioned is discussing sensitive topics that you wouldn't otherwise maybe bring 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:06.160 up on the podcast. Like we wouldn't bring up those topics in our episode, talking about race, 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:10.480 especially me being a white guy. I think there's a lot of risk bringing up some of those sensitive 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:16.720 topics about race, for example, or gender that I can't fully relate to because I'm not living 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:21.840 through that experience. So I can only relate to that intellectually or through experiences of others. 00:18:21.840 --> 00:18:27.120 And as I was listening to our recording, I was asking questions. And at some time I was like, 00:18:27.120 --> 00:18:33.840 am I going overboard? Am I clashing too far? But I think it ended up being on the borderline. 00:18:33.840 --> 00:18:38.240 It was okay. But I was really happy for the opportunity to actually have that discussion 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:44.000 with somebody on the record because I can almost guarantee that there will be other people like me 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:51.600 who are interested in these topics, but are afraid to be canceled or something for asking those questions. 00:18:51.600 --> 00:18:58.800 Right. I never imagined having an episode like that. But once I started listening to the Hearts in 00:18:58.800 --> 00:19:06.240 Taiwan podcast, I knew that our recording with them is going to get into all of those things. 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:14.480 And it was awesome. Yeah. So the next one, this is more of a logistical question is they talked about 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:20.240 how their schedule is very irregular. In the first season, they tried to do like once a week, 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:26.480 but now they basically do one whenever it's ready. Now they're on a break anyway. They're going to launch 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:32.960 in the first season three sometime soon, hopefully, versus something like our podcast, which we try to 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:39.200 get it out every Wednesday in time for your commute. In fact, Ilya, you have auto-scheduled all of that. 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:47.440 So it's ready at 3:00 a.m. Pacific or 6:00 a.m. Eastern every Wednesday. What's your take on that? 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:53.520 That's how I've been doing my other The Russian podcast, the interview podcast. Sometimes I would 00:19:53.520 --> 00:19:58.880 have an episode every two or three weeks, and then we'd have a break of three months, just whenever 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:04.240 my time permitted, whenever the scheduling of my guests permitted. I think it's important to really 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:11.280 realize what you do it for and who you do it for. If you just do it for fun, actually stretching yourself 00:20:11.280 --> 00:20:17.520 too much to do like weekly schedule or bi-weekly schedule. Specific times might be a bit too much, 00:20:17.520 --> 00:20:22.880 and you just stop enjoying it. I guess any job, hire it, yet you do. You enjoy it up to a point, 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:26.400 but then at some point it just becomes like Monday 9:00 a.m. and you're like, "Oh, 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:32.800 shit. I really don't want to go to work." And that's not the feeling you want to get about your podcast. 00:20:32.800 --> 00:20:38.080 You really want to enjoy it every time you do it. And then if it's less regular, so be it. What I'm 00:20:38.080 --> 00:20:43.920 really curious about, is that hypothesis even valid? That people listen to your every episode, 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:49.040 unless you are a news podcast or sports podcast where it's really time sensitive. There's just so 00:20:49.040 --> 00:20:56.000 much content these days that what I usually end up doing with podcasts is I discover a podcast and I'll 00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:01.680 binge on it until I no longer want to binge on it. And then maybe I'll listen to an episode every now and 00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:07.120 then. I don't listen to every episode of every podcast I'm subscribed to. I would just look at the 00:21:07.120 --> 00:21:13.600 titles. If the title interests me, I'll listen to it. If not, I don't. Angela also mentioned that 00:21:13.600 --> 00:21:18.480 their most listened episode is episode number one, because people often listen to the first episode. 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:24.320 Actually for us, outside of the Brian McCullough episode where he gave us a lot of publicity, 00:21:24.320 --> 00:21:28.640 the second most listened to episode is our first episode. So maybe there's something in that theory 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:34.960 that people do go back and listen. And we have a friend of ours who just binges on our podcast in 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:39.280 the order, right? I think that's what she said she does. So yeah, that schedule, you know, 00:21:39.280 --> 00:21:44.160 it's kind of nice to have a reminder on somebody's phone that, Hey, like we have a new episode so that 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:48.320 they can be reminded of our podcast, go into the app, maybe listen to the episode we published three 00:21:48.320 --> 00:21:51.440 weeks ago. I don't know how much it really matters. 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:57.920 I feel similarly, if your podcast is big enough that it's earning you significant revenue, 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:04.080 or it's something like sports or news where that periodic publication is really important, 00:22:04.080 --> 00:22:09.840 right? Like a sports thing. If you're a podcast about a sports team, then you better have an episode 00:22:09.840 --> 00:22:15.200 after their game. Because if people are listening to you, then they would like to hear the feedback and 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:20.640 all that. Sometimes maybe even before big games, and you have to have that other than that. Yeah, 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:27.040 I don't know how much of that building habit thing matters because I like you said, I also listen in 00:22:27.040 --> 00:22:33.520 that same pattern where I find out a podcast, I binge listen to a lot of episodes. If I really like it, 00:22:33.520 --> 00:22:39.040 then I subscribe to it. But not every episode that's going to come out from that podcast now on, 00:22:39.040 --> 00:22:44.080 I'm not going to just listen to all of them. Because over time, I've collected maybe like 100 podcasts at 00:22:44.080 --> 00:22:50.960 this point. But some, let's say like Hard Fork or Decoder or Science Friday, depending on what that 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:56.000 topic is, I do listen to them again and again. I'm thinking about the Tim Ferriss episode, 00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:01.040 Tim Ferriss podcast. As much as I like Tim Ferriss, I think he publishes an episode every few days 00:23:01.040 --> 00:23:05.840 and they're pretty long. It's just impossible to keep up. And also not all of the people are 00:23:05.840 --> 00:23:09.520 interesting to me personally. I mean, they're very interesting people, but just the topics may not 00:23:09.520 --> 00:23:16.000 resonate with me. My actually favorite episode of the Tim Ferriss show, two of my favorite episodes, 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:21.920 the one with Arnold Schwarzenegger when he was still the governor of California maybe 10 years ago. 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:26.800 It's an amazing episode. We will link it in show notes. Absolutely amazing. I always thought of 00:23:26.800 --> 00:23:32.560 Schwarzenegger as being like this big dude playing Terminator, but he is actually very, very smart, 00:23:32.560 --> 00:23:38.240 very entrepreneurial. And he talks about how he was laying bricks European style when he first immigrated 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:43.280 to the US. All its stuff is just so fascinating. I have not heard that episode. It's probably like 00:23:43.280 --> 00:23:48.240 2012 or something. And then Josh Bateskin, I think he has two or three interviews with Josh Bateskin. 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:53.040 Tim Ferriss' show is the only podcast that has interviews of Josh Bateskin, who is a chess prodigy 00:23:53.040 --> 00:23:57.840 and a martial arts champion. I really love the guy. But if I were just listening to the latest episodes 00:23:57.840 --> 00:24:04.160 of Tim Ferriss, I would have never discovered those old ones. So really, podcasts are a library of that 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:10.480 old content that's timeless, which is absolutely fascinating. I want to bring up one more thing. 00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:16.720 This is not specifically related to the previous episode, but it's related to Taiwan. After we 00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:22.960 recorded that one, I was listening to the Decoder podcast. That's from The Verge. And they had an episode 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:31.120 on January 31st called Inside the Global Battle over Chip Manufacturing. Oh, it's because TSMC or something? 00:24:31.120 --> 00:24:39.040 Yes, yeah. That is such a fascinating episode. Like at the high level, I knew that yes, semiconductors are 00:24:39.040 --> 00:24:46.640 mostly manufactured in Taiwan, but I didn't know how much long-term view the Taiwanese government had in 00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:51.920 the 1980s. Long before semiconductors and the importance of all this today. 00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:57.200 We need to give a little bit of context of the semiconductor industry so that people understand 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:02.800 what they are. Yeah, yeah. So if you have a cell phone, if you're human, you probably have a cell 00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:07.440 phone right now. I mean, if you're human and you're listening to this podcast, you probably have a cell 00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:16.240 phone right now. Then that chip inside that probably has been made by a company called TSMC in Taiwan. 00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:22.720 They're basically the most globally dominant foundry of semiconductors right now. 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:25.600 Do they also make semiconductors for Apple? 00:25:25.600 --> 00:25:26.480 Yeah. Okay, wow. 00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:33.200 I think Apple only gets it from them. And there are basically two companies. One in Netherlands, 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:40.880 that owns the IP about how to make this kind of technology. And TSMC is the one that is able to 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:44.000 do that in practice. Manufacture the semiconductors. 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:49.120 Manufacture, yeah. And I'm not going to be able to do a good job of explaining all this, but 00:25:49.120 --> 00:25:55.520 go listen to that Decoder podcast from January 31st. It's an amazing one. What I wanted to highlight 00:25:55.520 --> 00:26:02.240 there is the strategic bet that the newish Taiwanese government took in the 1980s, 00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:07.120 looking at like, we are going to be the dominant one in manufacturing semiconductors. And it's a big 00:26:07.120 --> 00:26:11.600 investment. It's a very heavy investment that you need to do to create something like that. 00:26:11.600 --> 00:26:18.560 They almost paid more than 50% or something like that of the initial TSMC budgetary requirements. 00:26:18.560 --> 00:26:25.120 But today, look how that turned out. It's not just the economics and the jobs and 00:26:25.120 --> 00:26:31.840 everything that TSMC is driving, but the geopolitics. So that episode does a great job of talking about 00:26:31.840 --> 00:26:38.080 it. But now that AI is becoming more and more dominant, there's a lot of restrictions of what kind 00:26:38.080 --> 00:26:45.680 of chips we will allow China to make or touch or US or Russia and all that. And there is a lot of 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:52.160 geopolitics going on in that space. Part of this is what's keeping Taiwan totally independent too. 00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:58.160 Oh, it's because they own the platform, essentially, those processing units that are very expensive to 00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:04.160 If you were to just screw TSMC, we just want to produce that ourselves, it's probably billions of 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:08.320 dollars that we're talking about. And also decades of experience that other companies would not have. 00:27:08.320 --> 00:27:17.040 Yes. But I think the thing here is like, the US cannot afford to not let Taiwan be independent 00:27:17.040 --> 00:27:17.600 anymore. They have to. 00:27:17.600 --> 00:27:18.320 They have to. 00:27:18.320 --> 00:27:23.600 I don't necessarily want to venture into geopolitical topics, but I get what you're saying. Because a big 00:27:23.600 --> 00:27:28.960 part of the development of the knowledge economy is based on the availability of those chips for 00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:31.360 computers and cell phones and other devices. 00:27:31.360 --> 00:27:33.200 Yeah, it's a great episode. 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.480 I can also tell something about Taiwan that's more playful. 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:42.480 We were once flying with, I forgot which airways it was, I think it was Japan Airlines or something, 00:27:43.040 --> 00:27:48.000 from Seattle to Taipei, which is the capital of Taiwan, and then from Taipei to Singapore. 00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:54.240 And one of the flights that we were flying with, I think it was Air Taiwan, a Taiwanese company. 00:27:54.240 --> 00:28:00.080 So by the way, they have absolutely fabulous airport, like massage chairs for free, some indoor gardens, 00:28:00.080 --> 00:28:06.000 indoor jungle. It was 2016. It was really, really nice. The plane that we flew on, I think it was a plane 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:11.600 from Taiwan to Singapore. It was a Hello Kitty plane. And for those of you who don't know what Hello 00:28:11.600 --> 00:28:17.360 Kitty is, how could you not know what Hello Kitty is? It's like these cute cats. I don't know if it was a 00:28:17.360 --> 00:28:23.680 cartoon or something. So the whole airplane was painted in Hello Kitty. The interior, the seats 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:30.000 and all of those covers on the seat under your head and stuff, Hello Kitty everywhere. They brought us 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:35.760 lunch and it was in Hello Kitty boxes with Hello Kitty napkins, Hello Kitty silverware. It was just 00:28:35.760 --> 00:28:41.760 absolutely fascinating branding that they did. I don't even know what Hello Kitty is originally. I just know 00:28:41.760 --> 00:28:46.640 it's a bunch of stuff with kittens. I just know the stickers. They're so commonplace. 00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:52.880 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was my exposure to Taiwan. Nice. I know there are planes like that for 00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:59.040 Disneyland, for example. Right. But that would be fascinating to go on a Hello Kitty plane. It would 00:28:59.040 --> 00:29:03.280 be actually fascinating to go on a Star Wars plane. Oh, is there one? I think I saw pictures of those. 00:29:03.280 --> 00:29:07.280 Yeah. I forgot which company it was. I think it was United or something. They had these really, 00:29:07.280 --> 00:29:13.440 really nice Star Wars planes. I actually think they had two. One red, one blue or whatever the colors are. 00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:20.480 Especially if they simulate warp speed travel and port holes and all that as you're flying, 00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:23.360 that would be amazing. You would just hope they don't break any guitars. 00:29:23.360 --> 00:29:25.760 Do you know what I'm talking about? 00:29:25.760 --> 00:29:27.360 Guitars? No. What? 00:29:27.360 --> 00:29:31.760 So there was a guy, it was maybe 10 years ago, a guy with his band. 00:29:31.760 --> 00:29:34.880 Oh yeah. Yeah. You should totally tell this story. Yeah. 00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:39.920 Yeah. They were traveling on a United flight somewhere for like a gig. And he was looking 00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:45.120 out the window of the airplane and his guitar, his Martin guitar, which cost 2,500 bucks, 00:29:45.120 --> 00:29:50.000 a very expensive guitar, was just tossed around an acoustic guitar, which is very fragile. And then guess 00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:55.440 what? It got broken. He described this experience in an article. He just couldn't get them to pay for it. 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:55.840 Right. 00:29:55.840 --> 00:29:59.520 They would just give them credits or some other bullshit that didn't matter for a musician 00:29:59.520 --> 00:30:05.520 whose instrument was broken. So he wrote a song called United Breaks Guitars, which we'll link 00:30:05.520 --> 00:30:11.840 to in show notes. And that song just went viral, absolutely viral. So Martin actually gave him two 00:30:11.840 --> 00:30:19.040 guitars for free. And then he probably made a bunch of money too with that. And then United actually 00:30:19.040 --> 00:30:22.240 wanted to pay him back and he told them to basically just go screw themselves. 00:30:25.120 --> 00:30:30.080 He really capitalized on a bad experience, turned it into an opportunity. 00:30:30.080 --> 00:30:37.520 Okay. Going back to Annie and Angela, one thing I wanted to call out is they mentioned how they 00:30:37.520 --> 00:30:44.000 aspired to be like a couple of other podcasts that they liked and they want to model after those. 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:48.240 And that's exactly what we heard from Jake and Jonathan. That's exactly what we heard from 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:55.280 Brian McCullough. All the upcoming podcasters, including ourselves. We all had something we 00:30:55.280 --> 00:31:02.480 wanted to emulate at least partially or combine multiple ideas from other podcasts. I think it's 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:09.440 just a great advice to anybody who's just getting started. Don't try to be super unique because 00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:16.480 uniqueness comes from the content, but the format and some things that you do, as long as they resonate 00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:21.760 with you, as long as you can remain yourself while doing those things, while saying those things, 00:31:21.760 --> 00:31:28.720 I think it's totally cool to just be a bit of a copycat and then you find your own voice by 00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:32.800 doing this and evolving further. So I thought that was a fascinating observation. 00:31:32.800 --> 00:31:40.640 Yeah, it makes sense. It lets you basically take on things that work well, that you know works 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:47.360 well already, that you personally like, and then bring in and focus on the uniqueness on your content 00:31:47.360 --> 00:31:52.080 and not on all the logic, the music or the style of presentation and all that. 00:31:52.080 --> 00:31:56.560 Also speaking about logistics, it was interesting to hear Angela break down 00:31:56.560 --> 00:32:03.520 their costs for the apps that they pay and how much they don't want to overspend on a podcast. 00:32:03.520 --> 00:32:07.440 And I think this is where actually the regularity of the schedule comes in. Because if you publish 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:12.640 something every week, then you know that whatever monthly subscription you pay, let's say it's going 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:18.800 to be distributed across four episodes. But if you do it irregularly, then maybe you don't use the 00:32:18.800 --> 00:32:23.360 subscription to a squad cast or something for two months. And then you feel like you're wasting money. 00:32:23.360 --> 00:32:29.840 Yeah. So I think when you have a regular schedule, that is more justified. But also what I personally 00:32:29.840 --> 00:32:34.400 discovered is some tools, yes, you have to pay for them. Descript, for example. 00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:34.960 Right. 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:41.520 We could live without Descript. It costs us about 20 bucks a month at this stage, but it helps me do 00:32:41.520 --> 00:32:46.400 the show notes a lot faster. Also the Annie and Angela episode, I did it fully in Descript. 00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:50.800 Descript. I mean, the content cut. Then the sound engineering will be done by Misha, by our sound 00:32:50.800 --> 00:32:57.520 engineer. So you didn't use the iPad app, I forgot the name, Ferrite? Ferrite, yes. I wanted to use 00:32:57.520 --> 00:33:03.360 Descript to see how that will work in terms of editing things. Because the thing is, when you edit 00:33:03.360 --> 00:33:11.280 in Descript, I can see "oom" and "um" and all its stuff with my eyes, I can just cut it. Whereas in Ferrite, 00:33:11.280 --> 00:33:16.800 I have to listen for it very carefully and then remember to cut it. So Descript is more effective 00:33:16.800 --> 00:33:22.960 that way. But still, I ended up spending maybe five hours to edit two hours of audio. Actually, 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:28.880 it's not too bad. It's like two and a half X time. But I'm pretty confident with the quality of the 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:33.920 edits that I did because I removed a lot of filler words, false starts, all that kind of stuff that 00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:38.160 was very easy. It also took a little bit of more time. And maybe you can read my quote. 00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:44.880 Did you manually cut out the filler words and all that or let Descript identify and just say cut 00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:49.520 out everything? I did it manually because Descript doesn't always identify the boundaries correctly. 00:33:49.520 --> 00:33:57.280 I did it once automatically for our first episode and I had to redo everything after that. So I 00:33:57.280 --> 00:34:01.360 wasted probably like an extra hour, hour and a half by relying on AI too much. 00:34:01.360 --> 00:34:07.440 Right. The quote, I'll say this on record, but let's see if we want to keep it or throw it out. But 00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:10.720 what you said, forget the context, but I think... 00:34:10.720 --> 00:34:15.360 The context was that you said it was a great episode. I said that I felt it was too long. 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:15.760 Yes. 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:18.640 But maybe because I listened to it so much. 00:34:18.640 --> 00:34:25.840 I may have a bit of a skewed perspective after having spent three hours for the first 15 minutes 00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:30.640 fighting Descript. Man, it's bugs and slowness are infuriating. 00:34:30.640 --> 00:34:38.080 This was a fair comment at the time. Because what was happening is as I was trying to edit Descript, 00:34:38.080 --> 00:34:42.960 what it doesn't do a good job at is when you have multiple tracks, in this case we had four tracks, 00:34:43.680 --> 00:34:49.120 and you have a false start. Maybe you start talking while Angela didn't finish talking yet. 00:34:49.120 --> 00:34:51.680 Oh, and that happened a lot in that episode. 00:34:51.680 --> 00:34:55.280 Yes. Yeah. And you just shut up really quickly, right? But it's still on the record. 00:34:55.280 --> 00:35:02.560 And Descript uses sort of linear time. I can't just edit your part out because it's all just merged with 00:35:02.560 --> 00:35:09.440 Angela's part. So I have to go to what they call the sequence editor, which is similar to a regular digital audio workstation, 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:15.600 where it shows multiple tracks. And in that version that I was using, I would try to use a slicer tool to slice the audio. 00:35:15.600 --> 00:35:23.600 And it would just hold for 10 seconds. So I would have to close that, open it again. Then that slice would appear on the track. 00:35:23.600 --> 00:35:28.960 And I would have to manually adjust things. It would hold again. For every single one of those cuts, 00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:35.200 I would spend almost a minute, which was absolutely unacceptable. Because you're only as good as your 00:35:35.200 --> 00:35:40.720 tools are. It's good comparisons. Imagine you're typing on the keyboard and it takes a few seconds for 00:35:40.720 --> 00:35:43.680 the letters to appear on the screen. It would be just absolutely infuriating. 00:35:43.680 --> 00:35:46.960 And on top of that, you would lose track of what you're trying to do. 00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:50.320 Exactly. Yes. And you also get emotionally worked up while doing that. 00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:55.360 Yeah. In all fairness, I think it was the day before yesterday, they actually updated the app. 00:35:55.360 --> 00:36:00.080 So there was a new version of Descript and it told me there was a new version available. Click here to restart. 00:36:00.080 --> 00:36:06.000 I restarted and it was all working perfectly. Somebody else supposedly reported this or maybe 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:12.080 they discovered themselves and they fixed it really quick. Imagine if it was a software by Microsoft or Apple. 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:14.400 Well, we will get a fix in 2024. 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:19.920 Yeah. I had an interesting bug with Apple yesterday, but I won't go into the details. 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:23.920 I don't think it'll get fixed soon. I did leave them feedback, though. 00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:25.200 Oh, I don't think they listened. 00:36:25.200 --> 00:36:31.760 Oh, one last thing is talking about logistics and all that and on the topic of feedback. In the episode, 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:39.920 we talked about the check police. We instituted a new mechanism for us to be more mindful that we 00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:46.240 have a checklist and we need to abide by it. And we called that role the check police and you did it. 00:36:46.240 --> 00:36:48.320 And I think that was really helpful, right? 00:36:48.320 --> 00:36:48.560 Yes. 00:36:48.560 --> 00:36:53.840 So the next episode we're going to record later today, I'm going to be the check police. 00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:58.800 We'll see how it goes. I'm very emotionally connected to that topic. So we'll see how much 00:36:58.800 --> 00:36:59.920 I remember and all that. 00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:05.440 Yeah, it will be very interesting recording because I'm emotionally not connected at all. 00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:10.560 The biggest question I have is why Saunders FC, why they use the word F, the football club? 00:37:10.560 --> 00:37:15.200 All of my life, I was calling soccer football because actually in Russian language, 00:37:15.200 --> 00:37:20.000 we call football football and the American football, we call American football. 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:23.920 There is no term for soccer because it's just football in our language. 00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:27.520 So why don't they call themselves SC soccer club? Because they're in the US. 00:37:27.520 --> 00:37:35.600 We can ask them, but I think this is tradition. Most soccer or football clubs, 00:37:35.600 --> 00:37:38.080 they tend to have FC or something like that. 00:37:38.080 --> 00:37:42.800 Soccer sounds like a bunch of dudes running around in socks around the field. 00:37:45.200 --> 00:37:47.680 No, I like the word football too more. 00:37:47.680 --> 00:37:50.960 Yeah, because you kick a ball with your foot. We can talk about that with Kelly. 00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:55.040 And you know, the American football, it's more like a hand egg. 00:37:55.040 --> 00:38:02.560 Yeah, I actually really like throwing the American football egg with my son. It's an interesting 00:38:02.560 --> 00:38:07.200 sport. I just wouldn't call it football. I think New Zealanders or Australians call it rugby. 00:38:07.200 --> 00:38:09.680 Rugby. Rugby. Yeah. I don't know what rugby means. 00:38:09.680 --> 00:38:12.560 Although it's different. It looks very similar from the outside. 00:38:12.560 --> 00:38:18.160 Yeah, the mechanics are similar, but the game and the rules are very different. 00:38:18.160 --> 00:38:20.560 So good to know. It's like hockey and golf, right? 00:38:20.560 --> 00:38:26.000 Wait, hockey and golf. I didn't even connect the two together. 00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:29.440 I guess you hit a ball with a stick. So, yeah. 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:32.800 You should watch that movie. I think it's from the late 90s, maybe 2000s. 00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:38.160 Adam Sandler. Adam Sandler, yeah, where he was a hockey player who started playing golf and he would 00:38:38.160 --> 00:38:41.760 hit the ball. And I don't think you could pull it off in real life, but it was a hilarious movie. 00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:47.120 Yeah. Okay. All right, then we'll see you next week. Don't forget to subscribe. 00:38:47.120 --> 00:38:51.360 Please, please. Actually, I don't care about ratings anymore. Send us some feedback because 00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:57.200 I'm curious to see the people behind those numbers. 87 doesn't make a difference at all. But if like 00:38:57.200 --> 00:39:00.720 three people write back to us saying something, that would be great. 00:39:00.720 --> 00:39:06.160 No, I'm actually amazed that approximately 90 people listen to this podcast every week, 00:39:06.160 --> 00:39:09.920 which is amazing. I didn't think that would happen. But yeah, it would be awesome to get 00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:14.400 some feedback to see what's going on well and what you'd like to see more of. 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:19.040 You know, I think the podcast experience is more like an e-commerce website where just some random 00:39:19.040 --> 00:39:24.080 people come and buy your stuff and pay you money, but exactly you don't get any money for the podcast. 00:39:24.080 --> 00:39:30.480 Whereas what I would like it to be more of is a farmers market experience where people come to us, 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.960 listen to us, and we have a conversation. I think that ability to have a conversation in 00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:43.600 podcasts is really missing. So yeah, please send us something. Okay, I guess see you next week. Bye. 00:39:43.600 --> 00:39:47.200 All right, bye.