WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.960 Any good things take a lot of hard work to produce. But hard work should feel pleasant. You 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:16.559 do that hard work and it feels really good after doing that hard work. You can feel tired and exhausted and maybe frustrated at times, but you still feel very good about yourself 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:24.320 and what you're doing. Whereas if you do this out of pain, if you feel like struggle, if you feel like, oh shit, it's like this hard work that I have to put into the sheets of 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:31.920 everything. So that's going against the flow. 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:38.719 Hello, welcome to Metacast episode 17. Wow, seriously? 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:45.840 15. Okay. 15. Yes, I'm your host, Ilya Bestelev. And I'm Arnav, I'm still amazed at 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:51.200 episode 15. Yeah, it feels almost like a prime number except that it's not a prime number. 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:56.719 It's a multiplication of the prime numbers, 5 and 3. So today we are doing something really 00:00:56.719 --> 00:01:05.200 cool. So we are recording in person in Vancouver, in beautiful British Columbia. Yes, it's a lovely 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:13.599 place. The sun is starting to come out both today and in the year. Yeah, we're in Arnav's house 00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:21.519 and we use some really awesome makeshift setup we have. So yeah, actually our videos look pretty awesome. 00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:25.759 Yeah, check out our sub stack for the picture of what it actually looks like from the outside. 00:01:25.759 --> 00:01:33.599 Yeah, we have two iPhones on tripods. Is there cameras? One on top of about six dogman books. 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:39.039 And a Titanic book. So I hope this recording does not sink. Yeah. 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:53.040 It doesn't break in half. Yeah. So we use both of my microphones for this recording. We use a Shore V7 which is Mike, I'm recording on through USB and Arnav is using my Shore SEM 58 connected 00:01:53.040 --> 00:02:00.719 to Focusrite's Cardid II. And basically what that means in layman's terms is when Ilya flew 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:07.519 from Miami to Seattle and then drove here. More than half of his suitcase was full of audio equipment. 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:13.599 Yes. And I thought I would be stopped by the TSA people, the security control because 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:18.400 I saw the picture of what I was carrying on their screens. Right. They actually in Fort 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:23.439 other day, they now have this really cool new like X-ray machines. Right. I don't know. They look 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:30.879 like a spaceship. I should add a picture of that to this sub stack. Can you take pictures of the 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:43.599 TSA security station? Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't take any pictures. Yeah. They look like spaceship and they show the contents of the bag in like 3D and they can like move them around. 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:50.400 So I had like two laptops there, two mics, a bunch of cables and stuff. Yeah. They just let me go. 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:55.519 So this prevents like this. They don't need to ask you to open it up anymore. They can actually 00:02:55.520 --> 00:03:01.199 turn it around and see everywhere. The funny thing was like remember how for the last 20 years, 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:06.400 they've been yelling at everybody to take their laptop out of their bag. Yeah. Now they were yelling 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:11.039 at me to not take laptop out of my bag and I'm like, when did the rule change? And she's like, 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:16.240 this is the rule now. Don't take a laptop out of your bag. Oh, okay. Whatever. Depends on the airport, 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:20.560 though. Yeah. Well, I've never seen X-ray machines like this before. Right. So that's Fort 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:25.759 Lodderdale airport, the specific, it was terminal two where Delta flies from. Right. And that was 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:29.840 actually pretty good. Very, very quick. I wish they will stop asking us to take our shoes off. 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:35.120 It's probably the only country in the world that still does that. Yeah. The one interesting thing, 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:40.000 are we recording video today, Alia? Yes, we're recording video. That's why we have this iPhone camera. 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:45.599 Yes, of course. Yeah. The one interesting thing today is if you're actually see the video and where 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:49.680 will our videos be posted, Alia? I think we will just cut some reels from this. Okay. Because like 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:54.479 posting the full video. That's right. But we'll see how it goes. But I don't promise that we 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:59.759 will have full videos. Right. I think if you are looking at the reels cut from it, one thing you 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:10.879 may notice is how awesome it looks like. Yes, of course. But also like we're actually, I feel like it's a completely different dynamic because even though we are facing each other, like we're actually 00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:16.639 in the same room and I'm looking at you. Yeah. And not you in the screen like this, which is a 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:22.639 completely different dynamic. I'm enjoying this feeling. Exactly. If I want to wrap to you, 00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:27.360 or like insert something, it feels so natural compared to when... Hey, by the way, can you... 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:31.759 Yeah. What are you saying? Sorry. Are you going first? 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:40.399 So yeah, none of that crap. Because I can feel it, you know? Yeah. I feel like a human now. 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:45.918 Yeah. This is so good. It feels so good. Yeah. And for the next segment of our meta, so today, 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:59.439 I think we want to also thank our sponsor, the dogman comics. Oh, yes. Yeah. So we are supported by, like literally we are being propped up by or supported by dev-pilky's awesome dogman books. 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.319 Well, supported by you, but sponsored by... Sponsored by... Yeah, I was actually air-cozy, 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:11.199 seriously. Yes. And we have a bunch of dogman books behind me and we have a dog in the room 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:22.478 and two men. Yeah. It's all about dogman today. But, I mean, in case there's any legal issues or anything, nobody's supporting us or no... I mean, people are supporting us, but nobody's sponsoring us. 00:05:22.478 --> 00:05:27.279 Yeah, we have our own support graphic, to us. Two men supporting each other. 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:33.918 And definitely not meta. Not meta, no. Yeah. Cool. So yeah, she's speaking about meta. 00:05:34.718 --> 00:05:40.319 Sort of skims through the memo that Mark Zuckerberg sent to his employees, that he's going to do 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:46.079 another round of playoffs, 9,000 people. I mean, I empathize with people who will be affected and all. 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:55.439 But as I was reading this, I really realized, like, I respect him as a founder of the company, who like takes the measures that he needs to take to do what's supposed to be the best interest of 00:05:55.439 --> 00:06:01.038 the company. He's not a hired person and I don't know. I never liked Facebook. I never liked meta, 00:06:01.038 --> 00:06:11.680 like as a company. Still don't. I never liked Zach really, but that blast, you know, email that I read that feels like I'm starting to regain some respect towards Zuckerberg as a founder, you know? 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:17.358 It's quite ironic that the feeling you're having is now at that time when they're having to let go 00:06:17.358 --> 00:06:24.478 of X,000 of people, right? Yeah. But I think I hear you in all the posts that came out, right, 00:06:24.478 --> 00:06:30.000 from Amazon, from Google, all these other companies. All of those exacts, they take responsibility. 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:35.279 Yeah, full responsibility for what's happening. This one sounded the most genuine, I think. 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:39.358 Yeah. Yeah. He's like, yeah, we go down side, he's here with the areas blah, blah, blah, 00:06:39.358 --> 00:06:52.079 blah. But it's like, but he's a founder. It's different. Yeah. And I'm also really interested to see where this goes because unlike the other big tech companies, I think meta is basically the cutting 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:58.079 or laying off the middle manager part. And I'm interested to see how this shapes up the company or 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:01.759 yeah, what happens next. I have no empathy for the middle managers. 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:07.519 Well, I have less empathy for the middle managers than I have for regular, 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:14.718 usual contributors who do the work. I have reasons for that. So one thing to say, I guess, 00:07:14.718 --> 00:07:19.598 about our setup today is that we are doing this in person. So we have two microphones. So some sound 00:07:19.598 --> 00:07:24.718 will bleed over. We have no idea we've never done this before. Yeah. I mean, I did this before, 00:07:24.718 --> 00:07:29.199 once for my other podcast, but we used just one microphone. So we were taking turns to speak. 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:35.519 Now we used two mics. No idea how it's going to get to channel two different audio channels. 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:40.718 And you will be able to mix them separately. But some sound from one will bleed over into the other 00:07:40.718 --> 00:07:44.800 because we're in the same space. Yeah. Like when we interrupt each other or when one person loves 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:50.560 whether other is talking, some of that sound will bleed over. Yeah. We'll see. I mean, more work for 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:56.959 Misha. Yeah. Sorry, Misha. Yeah. But he also recommended to us to put some towels underneath the 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:09.598 mics so that the here's a pro tip, very cheap pro tip. Yeah. If you have a desk with cart surface, you can put a towel underneath your mic stand so that the sound doesn't bounce from the cart top 00:08:09.598 --> 00:08:15.678 surface back into the mic. Do you need to cover the whole surface, the whole table or just below the 00:08:15.678 --> 00:08:20.959 mic and the immediate vicinity is good enough? I guess we'll find out. I don't know. Yeah, we'll 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:28.798 find out. I guess Misha told us. Right. So talking about the metasod today's metasod is about our 00:08:28.798 --> 00:08:38.318 episode 14. And I think we recorded that on the 15th of March Wednesday. Today is March 25th. 00:08:38.318 --> 00:08:44.000 So it was 10 days ago. So 15th of March, we recorded it late in the evening here in Vancouver. 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:52.720 And then the next day I flew to Mexico and then I came back two days ago without having basically 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:57.519 snorkeled and done stuff like that. I have not listened to that episode. I don't remember 00:08:57.519 --> 00:09:01.120 anything about it. So this will be an interesting metasod. Let's see how it goes. 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:06.480 Yeah. I'm really curious how that will pan out because Justin who's not some guy in the founder 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:13.759 of well, not founder creator of Winam and the Ripper digital audio workstation. He had a Linux laptop. 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:18.639 Yeah. Which is the first time ever. Actually, I talked to somebody who has a Linux laptop. 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:22.240 Usually people have like a Mac or Windows and they have a Linux box for development, 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:27.279 but not the serial in their laptop. And he used some kind of external zoom recorder connected 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:34.159 to the machine. And there was a lot of noises. And he had his left arm or like a I'm forgetting 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:40.559 a wrist broken or something like that. Yeah. Well, he had his laptop and his laps. Yes. 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:44.958 And his mic was also there and it was moving quite a bit. So there's quite a bit of noise. 00:09:44.958 --> 00:09:49.279 Again, we haven't processed that episode yet. So we'll see how it comes out. But there might be some 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:55.039 audio problems there. Right. You also mentioned, Dilea, that there was a lot of drift between the 00:09:55.039 --> 00:10:01.839 three channels, right? You mean, yes. Justin, yeah. Yeah. So the audio was just all out of work. 00:10:01.839 --> 00:10:11.600 It was just all out of sync. I had to basically like open all of that in the Ripper and just move all of the segments around so that they sound like a sequential because otherwise if he import this into 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:16.879 this crypt, it will just three-pout it will take it well. So yeah, I spent good amount of time 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:22.879 actually fixing that. And I couldn't quite figure out why it was happening. But now we just started 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:30.318 recording this episode. I noticed that so my microphone, my show in V7, it is configured to 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:37.200 what's the right word here? To use like 48 kilohertz is it frame rate? It's not frame rate. 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:48.480 Bitrate? Bitrate? Yeah. And this carlet, your interface, I mean, my interface that you're using, it was configured to use 1092K, which actually is quadcast, but some reason was showing as 19K. 00:10:48.480 --> 00:11:03.438 Maybe it can do like six digit numbers. Maybe that's why. So when you have different rate than the audio just sort of drifts, quite possible that Justin's equipment had maybe 44kHz 00:11:03.438 --> 00:11:09.198 or something. Yeah. Plus, he was on a very different setup that any of us or any of our guests so far. 00:11:09.198 --> 00:11:17.039 Maybe that's why the trade was different, right? Yeah. So because I was using my Scarlet, you were using your Bliety, which was probably 48kHz, and then he was using his Linux thing. 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:22.799 Maybe it was all differently setup, and that's why it was like that. 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:28.000 So for our podcaster listeners, if there's anywhere listening, how do they fix this? 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:33.679 So if you're on a Mac, you go to Spotlight Search, so you do Command Shift. Do you mean Alfred? 00:11:34.318 --> 00:11:37.759 No, I mean Spotlight. No, I mean, you mean Alfred, yes. 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:48.879 Yeah, if you use Alfred, yeah, you use Alfred, if you don't, you just go to Spotlight, you do Command Shift, and you type MIDI in there, MIDI, and then you find the device. 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:53.519 So it will open MIDI and audio setting, it's not going to advance device setting view. 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:58.159 And there you find your audio interface, your microphone, and you change the, 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:02.159 we should have looked what that's named there. We'll put off screen shot in our show notes, 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:07.438 yeah. Whatever that frequency rate or whatever it's called, to 48kHz, 48kHz. 00:12:07.438 --> 00:12:10.240 Yeah, and then restart the browser or restart squadcast or whatever you use. 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:15.279 No, the thing is squadcast shows you that value, so just make sure that all the guests are on the same 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:21.120 rate. And if you're on Windows, I'm sure there's about 15 clicks, you can go through Control Panel 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:26.720 and do the same thing. And if you're on Linux, I'm sure there's a command line way to change this 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:27.679 somewhere. Yes. 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:44.639 But yeah, that was an interesting observation that we made today. And we were also talking about how it would have been really nice if the wave format that we was recording had time markers in there so that when you import this into digital your workstation, it will just synchronize based on 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:50.000 the audio markers as opposed to right now it has to do math to synchronize. What does it have to 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:54.318 or you have to do it? It probably doesn't do any math because it's a lot of work. It assumes that 00:12:54.318 --> 00:13:02.960 it's synchronized. I think what happens is like maybe your project is like actually I don't know how it works, but like let's my assumption, just a wild guess, that your project is maybe let's say it's 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:09.919 48kHz, right? And then you imported 48kHz file and... But it's actually encoded in 19. Actually, 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:13.600 you know what? I don't think there's a project setting like this. I think the project is whatever it is, 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:19.679 then you add... Let's say I add my track and my track is 48kHz. And then I add yours and yours get 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:24.320 a little bit stretched because it has more frames. But I think we're getting into technical. And in 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.399 case, if you want to have with problems, make sure that all of them are the same. Right. Same rate. 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:46.320 But you're saying if these timestamps, because the physical time is passing at the same rate on both ends, regardless of what rate we're recording in, if that was embedded in the metadata of the web format, then Reaper or something else could read it and actually automatically synchronize it 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:50.480 for you instead of you having to do this yourself. Yeah, that would be really, really nice. 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:58.320 It's interesting that our last two episodes wait, not last two, but of our last six-ish episodes, 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:05.360 we've had the creator of Reaper and the creators and founders of Squatcast on their show. And I think 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:11.039 this is all about those two tools. Might be interesting feedback for them. Yeah, we also need to get 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:14.720 a description. And then we'll have full coverage of the tools that we use. Oh, we also have 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:21.519 somebody from Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, actually focus, focus, right? Yeah. Sure thing. 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:23.919 All right, Ilia, focus, right? Yeah, focus, right. 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:32.480 While you focus, right, let me get a bit of water. And I'm actually going to walk over to your 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:35.840 side of the room and grab. Actually, come pop up in my video. Yes. 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:46.879 So if you're actually, if you didn't believe us, yeah, we're here. Or we are really good at deep 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:54.559 fake video. Or VR, you said. That's all virtual reality. All right, I'm back on my side. All right, 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:59.600 cool. Yeah, we'll probably cut all that anyway. But anyway, or maybe not, it's a matter of so. 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:04.799 So what was your favorite part? Just in frankly, episode. The part that I like the most again, 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:11.360 like I said, it's been 10, 12 days. I've not heard or thought about it at all was his personality. 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:18.159 The way that he found, I think, wild success with his first project when he was 20, but it's not like 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:24.639 he was out to make money or something like that. It's almost like money wasn't his focus. He wanted 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:30.318 to create that awesome piece of software and he was inspired by AMP. Like he said, if you don't know 00:15:30.318 --> 00:15:34.720 what we are talking about, go listen to that episode. You'll figure out the history of Winam and all that. 00:15:35.198 --> 00:15:41.679 And he released it almost like without anything. It's shareware. Right. And if you want, you can pay 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:46.960 back a bit of donation. I think you're supposed to pay. Yeah, you could use it for free up to 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:51.200 certain extent. Yeah, but there is no enforcement of it. There's no enforcement now. Yeah. Actually, 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:55.519 I think he took a bit of offense when you said that it's like a donation. Yeah. Yeah. I think there 00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:59.840 was a distinction there. Right. But to be fair, I think the perception of shareware is that it's 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:06.080 sort of free. Right. Right. And I think he was not financially motivated at all. And I think he's 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:11.600 success. And then he went on to create Reaper. He worked in AOL for a long time, five years. 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:16.480 Right? Five years. Yeah. He probably worked at AOL more than he worked for no soft. And he created 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:23.360 these companies. And I was just amazed by how much success he had gotten without being motivated 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:28.399 by money or something. He was basically motivated by creating awesome things, which is amazing. 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:33.919 Really inspiring. This is very inspiring. So it's almost like he just created cool things, 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:43.519 sent them to the world. And the world just paid him back wildly. Yeah. Well, I think it's like his software touched, I don't know, half of the world's population, I guess, of the population 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:47.679 that had computers. So it's much less than half of the world's population because computers 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:54.078 were very expensive back then. But around say like the year 2000 or 2005 around that time, 00:16:54.078 --> 00:16:58.480 every single person that I know of was running with NAMP. Yeah, absolutely. Even my wife knows what 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:03.039 we know is she's like, is it the thing that you'd like whatever equalizer? It's like everybody knows 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:09.200 it, who is maybe older than 35. What was your favorite? Mine was also like I'll own the same lines. 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:15.599 You know, his company was like null soft. So it was like a company. But in fact, he built the whole 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:20.640 VNAMP thing himself. And then he had some other person helping him with some of the back-end stuff, 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:24.559 which you know, I'm not part of the player. So he's actually built the whole thing himself. 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:29.920 And then Reaper, he and another person essentially built the whole thing with just two of them. 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:40.720 It's like a massive piece of software that they've built over the 20 years. And interesting, I guess observation here for myself is with the desktop software, there's basically zero marginal cost 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:45.119 of distribution. So you build a software like the scale doesn't matter. Because it's running on 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:49.680 the end-user device. Exactly, yes. And it's not connected to other devices or all, you know, 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:54.480 anything. So you basically could have a billion people using this or one person using this. It 00:17:54.480 --> 00:18:04.559 costs you the same. Whereas if you run like a web app or any kind of an API or any kind of web-based thing, right, with the server side, there is a big difference between 10 users and a million users. 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:08.880 And there is an exponential difference between million users and 100 million users. You have to 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.880 like, re-engineer the entire thing. Every time you pass that milestone, whereas for him, 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:16.880 they can just keep evolving the same thing. It's a bit too technical, but the way they do the code 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:22.240 with that windows thing, I forgot what exactly it's called. It's like I'm surprised it works. 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:28.799 But it does. And I know it's a very fast piece of software. So yeah, somebody asks me to ask 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:32.720 him a question, right? The way that person phrased the question was like, they released so many 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:37.440 features and so frequently, but they must have a big team. How many people do they have? And 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:48.799 he announced, sort of, just fucking. Too few people. I'm forgetting the details now, but he also mentioned how for feedback and support, it's really run like a really small company. 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:53.919 Oh, yeah. It's probably a class in 10 people. Yeah. Out of feature only two or engineers. Yeah. 00:18:53.920 --> 00:19:00.079 And I sort of related to this. I was also really impressed. And I think it's almost like a role model 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:08.960 for me is how deeply technical he was. Oh my god. I think there was one segment where I didn't 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:16.799 understand more than 30% of what he was talking about. And what amazed me was it's rare to have that 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:23.039 sort of experience and interest in deeply technical things. And yet at the same time, 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:29.359 Rana company produced a product that customers love and do all of that. It's very rare. 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:33.440 I don't even know if I can come up with any other examples like this. John Carmack, I guess. 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:38.079 I think a lot of people aspire to be like that. And there are a few people who are like that, 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:48.159 but it's very, very rare. Yeah. Since we mentioned John Carmack and he called Carmack, he's sort of not a role model, but like somebody who he admires in another podcast. 00:19:48.159 --> 00:19:51.440 And we asked him about Carmack, but he didn't really go into much detail. But there is a really 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:55.759 great book called Masters of Doom. Have you read it? No, I have not. I've heard about it. 00:19:55.759 --> 00:20:00.319 It's very famous book. Yeah. It's very, very good book by, I forgot the name of the author. 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:05.599 He also wrote the book by GTA, the same author. GTA, the game. Runs after. Yeah. Yeah. 00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:10.880 I didn't know there was a book about GTA. Yeah. He's just less popular than the Masters of Doom book. 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:15.839 But yeah, in Masters of Doom, he talks about the history of Eads of Per, in the creation of Doom, 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:21.359 and Quake, and other games. It really goes deep into describing how John Carmack works, who was a 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:25.919 basically like the mastermind behind all the technology for those games. So those games were 00:20:25.919 --> 00:20:30.480 just groundbreaking. They invented 3D shooters and sprites and a bunch of other things that 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:35.359 are now used in every game. Like they invented the way of doing those things. And Carmack is just so 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:41.199 absolutely obsessed with things. I think he has a difficult personality. That's what I can gather 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:46.240 from the book. But at the same time, he's like a genius. It was really interesting about Carmack 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:51.119 that I read later on. You know, this guy who created Oculus Rift. He was like a teenager or something. 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:56.240 Like a very, very young guy. I forgot his name. Before meta. Yeah. Before what about them. Yeah. 00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:01.680 So he was on some forums for VR people. He was just like talking about his invention, 00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:06.960 that thing that he did. He put two phones into the box and that became like a VR headset. 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:12.079 And Carmack was also on that forum. So Carmack wrote to him and Carmack asked him for something. 00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:17.119 Right. And this guy, he just shipped him that prototype that he had. And then Carmack got 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:23.680 through the intercept and then Carmack became the CTO of Oculus Rift. And then they eventually got 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:28.640 acquired by meta. So Carmack was working for meta. I think he left now. But it's just like so 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:34.160 interesting to see how that person has done so many things. This actually goes back to our very 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:41.119 first episode with Brian McCullough. Right. He said that how do you find success is these kind 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:51.599 of things like you hang out in IRC channels and I don't know. Today there are Slack groups and Discord channels and all that and reach out to people and someday some sort of connection will happen. 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:56.079 Yeah. Yeah. And then we will say like, oh, like we are meta-casi podcasts about podcasting. 00:21:56.079 --> 00:22:01.200 And then teamfairies would be like, okay, I can on your show. Of your own. We'll be like, yeah, sure. 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:07.920 Yeah. Yeah. Just gonna pay us. I was actually paid for him to fly business for recording. 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:12.960 I don't think we'll be able to pay them enough. We'll see. No, I mean, pay for his tickets not for 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:21.039 it. And he can sleep on the air better than my office. Right. Right. Right. There was one more thing 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:26.000 I wanted to talk about that episode. There was so many innovative things they did with Winem. 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:39.200 One of the things we touched on was the plugin architecture. And I think even before open source was already a thing, but he seemed to me in that episode as we talked a big like an open software 00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:46.640 kind of person. Yeah. The plugin architecture, he said, I only use Linux for my laptop. So if 00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:56.960 squadcast supports that great, if not, we'll have to figure something else out. Yeah. That also, I think it's a generation of maybe software developers that you don't see often anymore. 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:08.240 Yeah. Because now I think it's all commercial. Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of people doing great work for open source, but not many who would like basically say that I only use Linux and nothing 00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:14.480 else. Yeah. Actually, it's interesting. He's like five years older than me. Yeah. Like three 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:17.839 three years older than you. Yeah. Actually, I previously were saying that you were one year older than 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:22.878 me. Yeah. We figured out last night while having dinner that I'm two years older than you. Yeah. Yeah. 00:23:22.878 --> 00:23:27.839 Just somehow we mixed it up. So he's just like a couple of years older than you, like five years 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:33.759 older than me. So that generation of us going into computers and software, we just are out of 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:42.878 sheer fun and enjoyment of the craft, you know. And nowadays, I think a big percentage of people going to the profession, they go there for money because like, yeah, it could make more money. 00:23:42.878 --> 00:23:46.559 It's just like people who become like doctors or lawyers. I mean, I can understand why people 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:50.878 would want to become doctors, but why would people come to us? It's like you go there because it's 00:23:50.878 --> 00:23:55.039 like prestige and money and all that. And I think that's how people go to tech. There was an 00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:58.960 episode on a Y combinator podcast. There were people about our age a bit younger than us. 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:03.279 But they were saying how back in the early 2000s, only like crazy nerds would go into tech. 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:09.119 And now people go study computer science, but they actually want to be VCs, like investors. 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:14.079 So their heart is not really with craft. It's like, how do I get to the top of hierarchy? 00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:19.119 Yeah, I mean, again, like not to, I think, get keep this, which is a good thing, right? 00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:23.679 More and more people today are getting into computer science than ever before. 00:24:23.679 --> 00:24:30.159 I'm not a computer science by education. I'm not a... Actually, at this point, like, just in 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:37.119 Frankel. Frankel. Yeah. So he dropped out of school. So he's like self-taught computer 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:40.960 programmer. Like you don't have to have education to be in that field. Today too, I mean, 00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:45.440 there are lots of people who find passion and come in. And there's nothing wrong with doing it 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:51.759 for the money. Right now, this is one of the top paying areas. And maybe one of the easier to get 00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:56.640 into. It's harder in the beginning, but later on, it definitely gets easier. The software 00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:02.880 programming and that side of it. But yeah, I think back the time frame that you're talking about, 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:08.480 people didn't know that you're going to be like big tech wasn't a thing. These kind of high 00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:14.640 paying jobs were not there. Software was very nascent. So yeah, it was not very common for people to 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:19.599 go into it. But other than if they found passion and charm in it. Yeah, and to a point, there are 00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:25.119 probably fewer open source fiction others these days. Because if you go there for the money, 00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:31.359 why would you do open source? I think by sheer numbers, there's probably more now. But by percentage, 00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:36.799 back then, I think almost everybody was all about open source at that time. Almost everybody. 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:42.638 I think now a programmer like Frank told is less likely to arise, I guess. Because he was doing 00:25:42.638 --> 00:25:47.759 this out of sheer fun. He was fixing his own problem. Now, like you have to enjoy the craft to do that. 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:58.720 Because like we were actually talking about earlier today, you really want to go with the flow, just generally in life, with the flow, like everything should feel like a breeze in a way that any 00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:04.559 good things take a lot of hard work to produce. But hard work should feel pleasant. You do that 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:09.119 hard work and it feels really good after doing that hard work. You can feel tired and exhausted and 00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:12.480 maybe frustrated at times. But you still feel very good about yourself and what you're doing, 00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:17.279 right? Net positive energy. Yeah, it's net positive overall, right? And much more positive than 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:22.720 like just neutral. Whereas if you do this out of pain, if you feel like struggle, if you like, 00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:27.119 oh shit, it's like this hard work that I have to put to achieve something. So that's going against 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:34.878 the flow. And I think when you do something for the money, there is a much higher chance that let's say if the money is longer there or if you just don't feel like doing that, 00:26:34.878 --> 00:26:41.359 you may just burn out, right? So talking about flow and energy and I guess sunshine, 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:46.720 it's really beautiful outside. Do you have anything else before we wrap up and go for a walk? 00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:51.039 Oh, let's see. There was something else I wanted to talk about actually. Paul's here. 00:26:52.398 --> 00:26:56.398 That won't be the shortest episode we've ever recorded. Which is good. We got feedback actually, 00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:01.599 right? I think I told you in person, but let me say on the episode, this is a metasod after all. 00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:08.799 One of my really old-time friends wrote back in email that our episodes, the metasod especially, 00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:13.680 are really interesting. They really like listening to it, but they're also very, very long. 00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:20.160 They said like maybe 30 minutes, 40 minutes is kind of like the right time. And we are about 34 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:32.240 minutes. We've cut some of it out. Yeah. So maybe one thing I would want to mention is after the Anian Angel episode, the Hartz and Taiwan episode, I started doing a new thing, I took the video 00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:38.400 that we recorded. And I created three Instagram Reels with transcriptions that Instagram itself 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:45.599 provides. Those got a lot more views than I have subscribers followers. So it got maybe like 500 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:49.359 views from one of those, the one that I've posted first. And then we also did, I think it's called 00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:54.640 the collaboration with the Hartz and Taiwan. So yeah, like the post I did appeared on their feed as well. 00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:04.559 I think we got a couple of followers from that. Not a lot. But what I also noticed in my personal Instagram account, I recorded my Russian podcast, but I also did the video with and I did the real. 00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:12.079 And the first real I posted had no transcription. It got maybe 1500 views, which was okay. But then 00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:17.920 I did another one with transcripts. And then it got like 3500 views right away, which is how 00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:23.119 Instagram works. It kind of recommends content. And if people like it, it recommends more of it. 00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:27.599 And then transcripts really help people just read it. If they have their own. 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:32.159 It's easier to scheme. It's easier to scheme. Yeah. If you can't listen, you can just read. 00:28:32.159 --> 00:28:35.679 So I think we'll continue doing those Reels and see how that works. 00:28:35.679 --> 00:28:39.599 You can check out the Instagram account at podcasthecks. 00:28:40.398 --> 00:28:42.398 Yes. .com. 00:28:42.398 --> 00:28:43.359 The head.com? 00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:49.119 No. So I'm also wondering if podcast hecks, like there's something about that Instagram handle that doesn't 00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:55.919 sit well with me because I'm more inclined to have my name as a logit name, not logit. I mean, 00:28:55.919 --> 00:29:00.719 as a user name. Yeah. Yesterday when I shared that I'm coming to you and you like reposited that 00:29:00.719 --> 00:29:02.398 and you said, what cast hacks? Yeah. 00:29:02.398 --> 00:29:07.759 I can't see. Just just feels so weird because of that user name. Yeah. 00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:12.079 I don't know what user name to use because my my real name is occupied by my personal account. 00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:14.878 Right. Which people can discover where? 00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:19.279 In Instagram and it's Ilya that best, but it's in Russian language and I'm not going to change 00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:36.559 it to English because it's a different kind of content. I try to use Instagram's translate feature and I'd say maybe 60 to 70% of the time it works and out of that 60 to 70% of the time that translation is I feel like it's meaningful enough for me to understand about half the time. 00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:42.000 It does not work in the videos though. No. So if you add content over video, I mean the text over 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:47.119 video it doesn't work. It just merges the text into video. Whereas with images it keeps it separate. 00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:52.400 I find it weird. Why would you just do it? Yeah. Anyway, so what else do we have to talk about? 00:29:53.119 --> 00:30:05.759 What food are you eating? I don't know. So today you guys made some Indian food and I was like eating it with like a pork and I saw both of you in your life just like eating a rice with your hands. 00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:10.960 I'm like, I've seen this before and previously I was like, what would people do that? It's like, 00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:16.000 oh, you hand it all like in rice and curry. But today I was like, I'll just go with the flow and do 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:21.920 it. I'll have to be honest. I have to trust it to the fork. Yeah, it's a hard habit to change I think. 00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:27.039 Yeah. Yeah. And I think the same thing like it's hard for me to change that. Especially if it's 00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:32.480 Indian food, I love eating with my hands. But if it's very similar like let's say Thai food, 00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:36.319 right? I eat with a fork. Yeah. So when you go to restaurants, if you go to the Indian restaurant, 00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:41.759 would you eat with a fork or with your hands? With forks. With forks? Yeah. Okay. There's just 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:48.799 something about eating at home. I think with your feed up stuff. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Yeah. I think we could 00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:54.159 wrap this up. Yeah. It's looking so inviting and beautiful outside, which doesn't happen often. 00:30:54.559 --> 00:31:00.079 And I just came back from sunny Mexico. So. And I just came from sunny Florida. 00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:05.759 Me. Well, Seattle. Okay. But before that, sunny Florida. Yeah. Florida is Florida is awesome and 00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:12.079 amazing. And I came to Seattle. I arrived around 10 p.m. And there was something about Seattle. I'm 00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:16.240 like, I don't know. It's not a place for everybody. I was like, yeah, driving listening to 00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:22.319 L. S. Inchains, which is a group band from that place. And this song that I like is, I think it's 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:28.079 going to rain when I die. And if you can see it, it's actually statistically very probable that if 00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:33.199 you don't see Seattle, it might rain. In any case, I hope none of us dies by listening to this podcast. 00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:40.480 And I hope it's sunny and nice wherever you listen to this. Yeah. If you don't die, that means 00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:49.119 you have a chance to leave a comment and reading for our podcast. So please do that. Yeah. 00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:55.279 Yeah. And if it's nice and sunny, you can die. I think it deserves a five star rating. 00:31:55.279 --> 00:32:00.559 Yeah. Yeah. Subscribe to our subs, like it. This letter is about metacastapotcance.com. 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:07.599 We just reviewed it and this email is hello at metacastapotcance.com. And we will see you next week. 00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:28.000 Yeah. Let's do a high five in person. Yeah. That's it. See ya. See ya. See ya. So sick.