WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.599 From now on, everything that we say should say in a way that can be clearly cut in the one minute bit of insights. 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:10.560 So you can post and link them in every thought one minute max. 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:14.839 I do it 15 seconds because I think we'll have younger listeners as well. 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:16.960 They can keep attention for more than 15 seconds. 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:18.800 Actually more like 5 seconds. 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:22.480 I guess our faces have to be like feeling for younger audience. 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:24.679 Otherwise, who's going to listen to... 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:26.160 Middle age man. 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:30.160 Yeah. Hello, hello, hello. 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:32.158 Look where we are. 00:00:32.158 --> 00:00:37.159 Welcome to episode 29 in person in Vancouver. 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:41.159 Welcome, Ilja. Yeah, we don't know if it's sunny yet. 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:43.159 It is, we can see it. 00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:45.159 And the forecast is also mid summer. 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:48.159 Yeah, I think most people will be listening, not watching. 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:52.159 So for those of you who are your headphones, yeah, we are standing next to each other. 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:53.159 Yeah, recording. 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:54.159 Two microphones. 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:55.159 Two microphones. 00:00:55.159 --> 00:00:58.159 Yeah, sometimes I'm speaking here. 00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:00.159 That doesn't matter, I guess. 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:01.159 All right. 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:04.159 You just made it a bit more complicated for post production, but anyway. 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:05.159 Right. 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:07.159 So why are we here, Ilja? 00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:11.159 So we have our first annual all hands. 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:13.159 Yeah. Right? 00:01:13.159 --> 00:01:20.159 Yeah. Most of who are listening, I guess, are probably pretty familiar with all hands and all that. 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:25.159 So yeah, this is our first ever annual company, all hands. 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:28.159 Yes, and what is all hands? 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:34.159 All hands is like all of us are together, usually, I mean, like only all employees of the company. 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:36.159 All employees of the company, yes. 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:38.159 And they're together. 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:45.159 They probably do some presentations, try to motivate each other, give some updates on what's happening. 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:46.159 It's a map review. 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:47.159 A map review. 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:48.159 Yep, yep, yep. 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:50.159 How about the team building exercises? 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:53.159 Yes, we are doing some this weekend and next weekend. 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:58.159 Yeah. So what's our team building plan for these 13 days? 00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:03.159 Yeah. So we have first one coming up this weekend. 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:09.159 So we are recording on July 27 on a Thursday on Friday. 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:12.159 We are going over to Vancouver Island. 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:20.159 So we're going to do a bit of like driving, start in Victoria on the down south, Bucard Gardens and stuff, and then drive up to Nanaymo. 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:25.159 Stay there a couple of days, do some paddle boarding and hiking and stuff like that. 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:31.159 And then come back, work, work, work, quite a lot strategy planning, road map review, goal. 00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:33.159 Yeah, yeah, financial planning. 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:34.159 Financial planning. 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:37.159 We'll have our off site. 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:41.159 Yeah, we need to define company values in principles, right? 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:43.159 Because like, where and if not now? 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:46.159 But the time we have one more person to be too late. 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:49.159 Yeah. Well, that's actually kind of true. 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:50.159 But okay, yeah. 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:54.159 And then next weekend we'll be doing a hike here. 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:56.159 We'll let you know next week more about that. 00:02:56.159 --> 00:02:58.159 Yeah, that's cool. 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:00.159 So welcome to our first off site. 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:02.159 Yeah, all of you are with us. 00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:08.159 Cool. So in one of the previous episodes, we said we should improve at least one thing for every episode. 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:11.159 So I'll start while you can gather your thoughts. 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:14.159 Or as to what we are doing for this episode, I think we should voice it. 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:15.159 So that we committed. 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:19.159 I started doing short video clips starting, I think two episodes ago. 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:25.159 And yeah, we're getting about 1000 views on Instagram, probably about 100 views on YouTube shorts. 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:27.159 But couple of hundred on TikTok. 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:28.159 Yeah, I had to install TikTok. 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:30.159 Man, their algorithm is awesome. 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:32.159 Yeah, anyway, so I'm feeling younger now. 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:34.159 So yeah, we also linked in, of course. 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:36.159 So we are doing those videos. 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:40.159 So now from now on, everything that we say, we should say in a way that can be... 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:44.159 That can be clearly cut into one minute bit of insights. 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:50.159 So we can post the link in and write something very insightful and finish with thoughts. 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:51.159 What's your speech? 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:53.159 Every thought, one minute max. 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:57.159 I do it 15 seconds because I think we will have younger listeners as well. 00:03:57.159 --> 00:03:59.159 They can't keep attention for more than 15 seconds. 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:01.159 Actually, more like five seconds. 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:05.159 I guess our faces have to be like appealing for younger audiences. 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:07.159 Otherwise, who's going to listen to two... 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:09.159 Middle age men talking. 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:11.159 Yeah, I wish the pleasant filters. 00:04:11.159 --> 00:04:13.159 No, I think that's actually makes sense. 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:18.158 But on a more serious note, you know how I was talking about like some people... 00:04:18.158 --> 00:04:23.158 The social persona they put on, it over time changes them. 00:04:23.158 --> 00:04:24.158 Not us. 00:04:24.158 --> 00:04:25.158 Not us, okay. 00:04:25.158 --> 00:04:32.158 But I think if you take this too far, try to do everything in a real, worthy way. 00:04:32.158 --> 00:04:34.158 It is going to change you. 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:43.160 I definitely noticed that when I was doing a blog on Instagram and might sound strange to our American listeners or even European. 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:47.160 But in Russia, Instagram somehow took off as a blogging platform. 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:53.160 A lot of people did text blogs, which was what like 2000 characters I think it was, the character's limit. 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:56.160 And the picture was just there because Instagram required it. 00:04:56.160 --> 00:05:00.160 People would pay professional photographers take 50 shots all over the place. 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:05.160 And then they just use those randomly. So it would be like somebody with a cup of coffee talking about whatever, some professional stuff. 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:10.160 If you look at their feed, there is nothing in the pictures that tells you what this post is about. 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:12.160 It's just them, right? 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:18.160 So when I did this, I realized that I started writing in a way to fit in that I think it was 20-100 characters. 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.160 But I often write longer. 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:26.160 So then I had to take like screenshots of those, like extra words, put them into the carousel. 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:31.160 And then I had to take a picture of Instagram. It was just so bizarre to plan your writing for the medium. 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:33.160 Image sharing medium. 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:35.160 Yeah, for the image sharing medium. 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:40.160 So even now, like you were doing an audio medium, an also a video on YouTube, but it's like a long-form conversation medium. 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:45.160 So yeah, if you have to adjust to one minute reels for those of you who didn't get it, it was a joke. 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:46.160 Of course. 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:50.160 I mean, it was a joke that people have to have to do everything in a real worth away, right? 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:53.160 But I think once you start doing those, it's actually very hard to keep your mind off. 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:57.160 It's like if you're a photographer, you walk anywhere, right? 00:05:57.160 --> 00:05:58.160 And you are... 00:05:58.160 --> 00:05:59.160 See, photograph. 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:01.160 You are applying the frame, yeah, the photographs. 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:06.160 And I think people who do like TikTok and stuff like that, they always think, oh, is it like worth it for a video. 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:11.160 And actually, I wasn't that camp a little bit more with pictures and also with Instagram stories. 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:14.160 I don't do that anymore because of that reason, actually. 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:19.160 Because you start seeing the world from the view of like, are people going to like it? 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:24.160 It's a very miserable way to live life. Actually, I think that thing was a real worth it. 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:30.160 Okay. So what are you improvising? 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:33.160 You're shaved, so you can't use this twice. 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:35.160 I got a haircut, shaved. 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:37.160 So yeah, I'm continuing that. 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:44.160 The thing that I am trying to do this episode is because we are both together physically here. 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:49.160 We're recording with two microphones, people on YouTube can see it. 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:55.160 And I, apparently, thanks to some feedback from Ilia, turns out I'm a very active listener. 00:06:55.160 --> 00:07:06.160 So what that means is like, when he's saying things like we have to make real worthy things, I would be like nodding my head, but beyond nodding my head, I'd be saying, oh, yeah, right. 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:08.160 Things like that. 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:16.160 And today, because we are recording together, my audio will bleed over into his mic while he's speaking. 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:22.160 That's going to give him a while pro-processing and editing it. 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:29.160 So I'm going to try and change my behavior just for this one episode and not say things. 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:30.160 We'll see. 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:34.160 You see the offset of his writing is to start him to play off because like, it was hard feedback, right? 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:43.160 Yeah. So we didn't do one improvement that we said we will do now on, which is about eight minutes into our episode now. 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:47.160 Let's tell our listeners what this episode is about. 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:48.160 Oh, yeah. 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:51.160 So, you know, we wanted to just chat, which we've already done. 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:52.160 So that part is checked. 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:59.160 We will give a bit of an update on just a couple of things happening, which I think we already partially done to. 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:02.160 We did want to introduce our CDO, right? 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:03.160 CDO, right? 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:06.160 CDO, right? 00:08:06.160 --> 00:08:08.160 We also wanted to talk about subscriptions. 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:18.160 I think subscriptions is a very nasty topic, but that's also very interesting topic because the whole world, a software now seems to be converging with subscriptions. 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:21.160 And we are in subscription pandemic right now. 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:22.160 So we will talk about that. 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:24.160 I don't think we'll have time to talk about anything else. 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:34.159 We should not forget to mention that person who cancels subscriptions right after they sign up to them, which is probably like pretty much everybody. 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:36.159 Okay. So, our setup. 00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:43.159 Yeah. So, you already said that we are in the same space in your, is it the office? 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:47.159 Yeah. You can see how I'm trying to drink even water very silently. 00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:48.159 Yeah, thank you. 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:51.159 No, no slurps, did you go over? 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:53.159 Yeah, so we have two mics next to each other. 00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:54.159 We're very close to each other. 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:55.159 Basically, shoulder to shoulder. 00:08:55.159 --> 00:08:58.159 We record this with two cameras, but we'll probably use just one. 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:00.159 So both of us are in frame, which is pretty cool, I think. 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:05.159 I dropped the mic this morning, but I was able to actually catch it mid flight. 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:10.159 But in a earlier episode, I think one of the very first you said this is one of those in this track. 00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:11.159 No, it's not this one. 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:13.159 Okay. This is the other one. 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:15.159 That's the MB7. 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:16.159 S-58. 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:17.159 S-58. 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:21.159 That's the one that like rockstars use on stage and smash it around. 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:28.159 Yeah, if you've ever seen like some green day taking that microphone with the cable and like waving it around like a lasso. 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.159 Not as if it's smashing, but accidentally smashing it. 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:33.159 And then they just pick it up and continue stinging it. 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:35.159 It sounds like that didn't happen. 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:40.159 Those are the S-58 microphones, $100 to piece, completely indestructible. 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:42.159 That's what people, $100. 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:43.159 $100. 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:44.159 Yes, $100. 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:46.159 But you need an audio interface for that. 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:49.159 So total maybe like seven, eight hundred dollars. 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:52.159 No, the audio interface, you can get like a cheapest one, probably about $100. 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:55.159 And the cable, so you're looking at maybe $250 bucks. 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:58.159 A run-ac from our episode about software misadventure. 00:09:58.159 --> 00:09:59.159 Yeah, I forgot the number of it. 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:00.159 He was using a S-58. 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:04.159 All 12-ish I think, or yeah, episode 12. 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:08.159 And also on our very first recording, I think I'll also use the S-58. 00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:09.159 It's a good microphone. 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:13.159 Yeah, so I guess we talked about the bleed over that's happening. 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:15.159 I'm trying to control it. 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:16.159 Trying to control it. 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:17.159 So you're checking the check box. 00:10:17.159 --> 00:10:21.159 Yeah, because at the north side you have to make sure that you use the time effectively. 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:23.159 Productivity, right? 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:29.159 So our next meeting is I think in 15 minutes, but we are running late. 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:31.159 Yeah, so let me send a quick text. 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:33.159 Let me run you over. 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:34.159 All right. 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:38.159 Next one was we were going to introduce our CDL. 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:42.159 This is our CDL Chief Dog Officer. 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:45.159 We love staying in our podcast. 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:50.159 You sometimes he kind of gives us a sound bite or two. 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:53.159 Sometimes he gives us a literal bite. 00:10:53.159 --> 00:11:01.159 So the funny thing about Boomer is when I came in yesterday, he was always leaking my left knee, which kind of felt weird. 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:05.159 I told him about it to my wife and she's like, he's healing you. 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:07.159 Maybe there's something in there. 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:08.159 I don't feel any pain there, but... 00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:11.159 Wait, do you have that big toe kind of pain or something? 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:13.159 It wasn't right. 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:15.159 Maybe he doesn't know. 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:17.159 Boomer may not know about it. 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:18.159 All right. 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:21.159 So that part of the checklist is done. 00:11:21.159 --> 00:11:23.159 CDL introduced... 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:24.159 It's interesting. 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:25.159 Let's move on. 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:27.159 Yes. Interesting. 00:11:27.159 --> 00:11:28.159 What do people say usually? 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.159 We are repeating ourselves. 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:32.159 Maybe you do that in Google. 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:33.159 I didn't hear that much. 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:35.159 Google, because I never worked in the office. 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:38.159 So we always use Google Meet and it had this emoji things. 00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:41.159 I think they're public now, but they used to be only like internal. 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:43.159 And they had a crab emoji there. 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:46.159 A crab means that you keep repeating yourself over time. 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:51.159 The passive-aggressive, Google-y way to say that this topic has to end and it's time to move on. 00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:55.159 It was a crab running across the screen from left to right, right to left. 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:57.159 Like somebody triggers it. 00:11:57.159 --> 00:11:59.159 Somebody clicks that crab thing on their interface. 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:07.159 And then everybody in the call sees that this person thinks that the person who is speaking should move on and stop repeating the same thing over and over. 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:15.159 Oh my God. I would have somebody say that rather than do that, like that sounds so bizarre. 00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:16.159 It's very Google-y, I guess. 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:18.159 It's a position that's kind of a funny, dorky thing, right? 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:19.159 Of course, yeah, yeah. 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:22.159 But it's more aggressive than passive-aggressive. 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:25.159 To be fair, I said it in a way that makes fun of them. 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:28.159 I would say for the first six months or so, actually didn't know what it meant. 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:30.159 I thought it was just a funny crab. 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:31.159 Why is that crab? 00:12:31.159 --> 00:12:32.159 Nobody knows. 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:33.159 It's some folklore. 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:38.159 So I just kept talking while I was thinking I have people in English because they're sending me crabs. 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:39.159 All right. 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:44.159 Quick few updates on what's going on before we head in, jump into the subscription. 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:49.159 We had our episode with Jason Fried, episode number 28. 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:50.159 Amazing episode. 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:51.159 Amazing. 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:52.159 Amazing. 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:54.159 I actually already have heard it twice. 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:55.159 From other people? 00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:56.159 No, no, like myself. 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:03.159 Other people have said that they are listening to it or they're like queuing it up for the weekend and stuff like that. 00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:09.159 But just during the interview itself, we knew that it's going to be a pretty good episode. 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:12.159 Yeah, I'm like, oh, this is a great real. 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:17.159 I think he talks on camera so much. 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:18.159 It was great. 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:21.159 He knows how to say things that are shareable. 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:23.159 I guess semi-kidding, of course. 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:27.159 But generally, he expresses his thoughts very concisely, very clearly. 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:31.159 And he says them in a way that grabs your attention. 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:45.159 And I think one thing that we did, I haven't listened to that many of his interviews, but somebody I know, actually somebody who mentioned in the episode, in the beginning, he sent me a note that you guys did a great job with questions because you did not ask him to quote and quote read his book. 00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:49.159 He said, like, usually people just ask him questions that are already answered in the book. 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:50.159 And I could just read the book. 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:53.159 And he has a, I think, wonderful way. 00:13:53.159 --> 00:14:10.159 Even if you ask him hard questions, or you don't agree with his viewpoint, and you ask him something pointed like that, he has a really awesome way of bringing it back, basically accommodating your viewpoint into his thought process. 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:14.159 Yes. And yeah, and it all happens in real time. 00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:15.159 It was awesome. 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:20.159 Yeah. I think there's a lot to learn from him in terms of just how to speak, how to answer questions. 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:24.159 Remember when we asked him about Jeff Bezos' investment? 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:32.159 I thought that might get a bit contentious, because they talk about bootstrapping, but they took some money from Bezos 15 years ago. 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:33.159 17 years ago. 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:36.159 So I was curious how it's going to be answered, right? 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:46.159 And he actually explained the rationale for how that money didn't go into the business, how it was more for them to reduce their own personal exposure and dependence on the business. 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:53.159 It was such a fascinating answer, one of my more way favorite parts of the interview, because it just puts things into perspective so well. 00:14:53.159 --> 00:15:00.159 Yeah. And like you said, everything that he was saying, like the way he was answering questions was very genuine, very pointed. 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:03.159 I also remember one part, you asked him a two-part question. 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:07.159 Yeah. He was talking for maybe like three, four, five minutes about the first part. 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:10.159 And then he said, like sorry, I forgot what was the second part of the question. 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:16.159 So he did remember that it was a two-part question, which was fine that he forgot about it, but he respected it. 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.159 And then he kind of gave him a point, and he immediately picked it up. 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:27.159 Yeah. Actually, our episode wasn't even the best example of I think how he does this. 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:35.159 I won't name the podcast because I didn't really enjoy it, but there was another episode in preparing for the Jason Fried episode. 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:39.159 We were listening to a lot of different podcasts that he has been on, right? 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:45.159 And one of those, the host pretty much going off a checklist, asking questions. 00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:56.159 And there was not really a good flow, or he would ask a question, and then Jason Fried would reply, and then he would immediately move on to a completely different question, something like that, right? 00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:07.159 And you could sense that it's kind of like jumbled together, and there's more stuff to talk about, and he wants to talk about it, but there is no time because he's jumping off into the next topic. 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:11.159 I thought he did a great job not getting like pissed. 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.159 He's like, it's going to be over in an hour or so. I just keep doing this. 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:17.159 This brings us to actually the good next topic. 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:23.159 We have started doing user research studies with some of our potential alpha testers. 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:28.159 We had three so far, and we had another four, five lined up. 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:33.159 Yeah, we actually doing one in person with a friend of mine later today, a hero in Vancouver, so which is awesome. 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:43.159 Basically, we wanted to see how people use their podcast apps, and learn from there, but also introduce our app, because these people will be our first alpha testers. 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:48.159 So before we prime them on our app, we wanted to see how they actually do things today. 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:53.159 And we prepared the list of questions to go off, which I think the very first meeting we did. 00:16:53.159 --> 00:17:01.159 We went off the list pretty much sequentially, and we got some answers, and we documented them, you know, all the standards, kind of a few extra stuff. 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:10.159 And then the next study, we asked the person to share their screen, and that whole questions thing just went out of the window. 00:17:10.159 --> 00:17:18.159 We started doing, I think what's called anthropology study, I guess, very close to being an anthropology study, so for those of you who don't know what that is, use your research. 00:17:18.159 --> 00:17:20.159 You can just ask people questions that they give you answers. 00:17:20.159 --> 00:17:28.159 For example, like, what app do you listen to? Why do you use that app? What is your most favorite feature in that app? 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:36.160 Yeah, and it just basically goes methodically. And I think often is the case, at least in my experience, is that user researchers are not domain experts. 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:45.160 So they wouldn't be able, in many cases, to have the deep conversation because they just don't know the product deep enough, or the area deep enough, because they're generalist, many of them are generalist. 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:48.160 That's why such a checklist of questions help. 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:53.160 Yes, it helps. And they rely on somebody with domain expertise to help them actually come up with the questions. 00:17:53.160 --> 00:18:02.160 I think that both at Google and Amazon, which is fair, right? You can't have a researcher working just one product all the time. There is not nothing neat, but because we are both domain experts. 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:09.160 We can, because we don't have any other people or money to get a UX researcher and all that. 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:20.160 Yeah, and right now it would be really wasteful to hire a researcher. So we do this as founders and we met, so yeah, the second person we had, we asked him to share his screen, and we just like, what podcast do you listen to? 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:34.160 Let's take a look at those. Like what do you click? And we just observe that in real life. And I think the most important thing there is you still want to keep in mind what you want to get out of this and go back to your question list and actually see if anything. 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:43.160 There's anything you missed while following them, like in this cap hazard random way. But I think the anthropologist really gives a good understanding. 00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:58.160 The questions are really a guardrail for you to not forget to ask about these things, but I really love the anthropology way because it meanders around a variety of topics. 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:06.160 But you get a lot more honest feedback. Well, not even feedback facts. 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:13.160 Because what people say they do and what people do might be different. It was really interesting observing our third participant. She was scrolling so fast. 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:20.160 Yeah, sometimes I wouldn't like I would have to reconstruct where she actually pressed because it was just happening too fast. 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:35.160 But it was good to observe how she's doing this because like she's not reading the episode titles or descriptions. It's her machine learning algorithm in her brain is like finally tuned to pick what she wants to listen to podcast since 2009. 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:42.160 And so she had this some extreme pattern matching ability that she developed in those 14 years, right. 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:53.160 And that's why we couldn't keep up because it just wasn't obvious. But I think what it also shows is that's how she operates, which means we ask her that question in person in writing. 00:19:53.160 --> 00:20:06.160 And she will go, first step, I do this, that's like a step to do that. It should be forced to do what we ask her to do. Whereas in the observation, she just asks what she does. And maybe steps are completely different because she doesn't even think about them as steps. 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:13.160 And we definitely wouldn't have come to know how fast she's doing this if we had asked this question. 00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:25.160 And also what we also saw with those three people and also the two of us, so we have a sample of five at this point. People have their own idiosyncratic ways of doing things. I mean, the only thing that is common is clicking the play button. 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:32.160 Everything else, like five people, five, sometimes like almost orthogonal approaches to let's say picking up the new episodes. 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:45.160 Sometimes similar, bad, different and for us building a podcast tab, you know, we obviously can't be great for everybody. We need to pick our battles. But some of those things, you could see, actually you can make it work for both pretty well. 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:51.160 But if you don't know that the other one exists, then you will just over optimize for maybe what you do for what you've heard. 00:20:51.160 --> 00:21:03.160 And I think this also brings us to the topic of just the importance of early user research and early user feedback. And once we get our app to them, that's when the feedback will come over. 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:12.160 Because right now we can show them everything about that, but until we start using it until we start figuring out what really works for them, or maybe like find useless. 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:15.160 We don't know, right? And only given it to them, and that's when we discover that. 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:24.160 I think we have one more feature to add, like favorites, and then we have to rename that because everything is in my personal accounts right now. 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.160 And then we're off to the alpha. 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:33.160 Yeah. Oh, actually, what was the original name of the app and the company that you want to use? I think we can talk about that. 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:41.160 Sure. Yeah. Orca pod. Orca pod. Yeah. I think it was like a code name. And why is it orca? 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:55.160 People who know me, I think know that I love Orcas, but also orcas are social animals that rely heavily on information being passed through the pod. 00:21:55.160 --> 00:22:07.160 A collection of Orcas, basically families there, maybe engineers, a collection of Orcas, a set of Orcas, order set of Orcas, an order set of Orcas are called the pod, right? 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:23.160 And of course, pod podcast, there's a play there already, but also they are heavily reliant on like making their own noises, communicating through sounds and passing their information from generation to generation casting their noises through their pod. 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:32.160 It's a funny how we humans assume we are more intelligent and we call their communication patterns noises. Maybe they're much smarter. 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:40.160 So yeah, it was Orca pod podcasting app and how you'd be want to name the company or collapse or the land. Yeah. 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:54.160 And then we went to register it and we found out that Norwegian company. I think the region company is something else because it's Norway, but there was a company in the US that does some kind of aquarium thing. 00:22:54.160 --> 00:23:04.160 So it was already taken some actual physical thing that is related to like actual fish and see life. Yeah, the name was taken and we were like, okay, so we get a scramble and we won't disclose the name just yet. 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:10.160 You you may know it already, but we won't disclose it. 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:26.160 But yeah, we had our I think our first app, we should keep some of those error screens and all that for posterity because there's literally orcas jumping out of the water and stuff like that. Yeah. And saying things like whale, whale, whale. 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:35.160 Let's go to the subscriptions topic because yes, we don't have much time. We need to run to the next meeting. All right. So we wanted to talk about it like three episodes ago. 00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:46.160 We haven't made that time for it. So finally it's time. I think we wanted to start with what are the subscriptions we use for this like creating and producing and managing this podcast. 00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:48.160 Not also for the company, right? Yeah. 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:57.160 So let's start there and then we'll just to set some context why we want to talk about subscriptions more recently. I think we've been kind of annoyed with some of the subscriptions that we have to pay for. 00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:07.160 And I think the final turning point from sort of accepting subscriptions to like completely disliking some of them. So using this tool called can for 00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:20.160 creating the podcast covers the YouTube images. So we use it once a week to like basically type different text into templates and drop a photo and like be done with it. It's like I literally spent 10 minutes a week on this. 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:29.160 This thing costs, I think it's $299 for personal user or $499 for like team of two, which I find excessive for what it does. 00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:39.160 And the only reason why actually we would pay for this is to make those images transparent for YouTube covers because it's really cool. So right now we actually we haven't paid yet because we are on the free trial. I also use it previously. 00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:50.160 I needed to use some custom image that they had and actually they had a micropayment there. You could pay a dollar. You can get all of those for free with the subscription or you can pay $1.99 and just get that particular image. 00:24:50.160 --> 00:25:02.160 You'd rather do that right. I actually did that. So I paid a couple of bucks for those images and I'm like, okay, that's great. Actually, it's it makes much more sense. It's I consume this I pay for this. So it's like you don't buy subscription for like drinking coffee every day right. 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:14.160 You pay for it whenever you want and you can get some discounts if you buy like a lot. And that's how I feel like some of the software should operate because Canada for us is not a required tool. 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:31.160 You could do this all with that kind of kind of just makes it a bit simpler but still like 15 bucks is too much for what we get out of it. But there are some other tools like squadcast we are recording right now we've been 40 bucks month and that's actually very useful like we could not do this without you could not do it without right. 00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:39.160 And I think Riverside is like a cheaper but we just so used squadcast also support the kind of the small company. We also have the founders on our show in episode eight. 00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:53.160 Yes, yeah. So yeah, we're cool with that or this crypto paying 30 bucks a month for this script. It helps us. It saves us a tremendous amount of time to begin with. And second, it allows us to do those video reels with transcripts and also they look nice. 00:25:53.160 --> 00:26:03.160 They are alternative. We would have to pay for final cut pro or whatever those other tools 500 dollars. Yeah, I think final cut pros like the like two three four hundred. It's expensive. 00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:15.160 And also like we wouldn't be using those capabilities nearly as much. Well, I don't be audition. I think it's like 30 bucks a month or something or not audition what is that premiere and described you get the editing of audio you get to edit video you get all of the transcripts and reels. 00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:29.160 Now we also just use the studio sound feature a bit to produce the sound rate. Actually, I don't anymore. I used to video we can keep it for another another time. It's good but not up to your standard not up to my standards here. 00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:36.160 It works for audio. There are better ways to do this as long as you know what you're doing and you have you have spent 500 dollars on another. 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:50.160 So the software on as a top. I think generally speaking, I love the convenience of subscriptions, especially on my phone where I can just tap something. I don't need to enter all the credit card information and all that and say like done. 00:26:50.160 --> 00:27:05.160 However, there is a subscription epidemic. I think it's a worldwide phenomenon. So it's a pandemic and it's not just us like you go to any social media you look up this topic and you'll see lots of like great points about it. 00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:20.160 One of the worst subscription models that I absolutely hate right now is car manufacturers. I don't know if you've heard. So car manufacturers. I think BMW is your favorite car company. Not mine anymore apparently. 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:35.160 So they would ship with all the required hardware but to turn on some specific features like heated seats. So the car is already equipped with heated seats but to turn that on you have to pay a monthly subscription. 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:45.160 It is ridiculous. It is ridiculous. Yeah. It's crazy but they have already tried it out. I don't know about the success rate or not. But that's just like going beyond. 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:56.160 I think it ventures into the realm of being almost. I mean it's like borderline I guess it's just if you know how they do this. It just feels wrong. 00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:07.160 Yeah. It doesn't like when you turn on your heated seats. It's not like there's some backend service that is being sent requests that you have to service and it's costing you anything. 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:16.160 It was like zero operating cost. So it's only capital expenditure that they put into making those heated seats. That technology probably hasn't changed for 30 years. 00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:24.160 But it doesn't just do the same thing with autopilot. Autopilot is a one time payment. It's not a six thousand dollars. It's quite expensive. 00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:37.160 Yeah. And that's very common in cars though. You buy features and I'm okay with when you buy the car you decide or maybe even later on you decide, okay I want autopilot and I want to buy it. Sure. One time. 00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:49.160 The car already shipping with hardware that doesn't cost anything extra to use. But you're charging a monthly subscription for it. That just is ridiculous. 00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:58.160 And you might start thinking like do you need to warm my butt. Is it really worth 10 bucks a month? Yeah. Maybe I needed only in January and February. Yeah. 00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:01.160 But it's an annual subscription probably. Right. 00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:15.160 Only a three-year plan or something. Yeah. But there is a definitely a subscription epidemic. And this is really attractive to companies because it gives them a very predictable recurring revenue. 00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:27.160 Yeah. So I just realized when we moved to Florida. So we brought the car from Seattle to Florida. And I have heated seats. Luckily I also have actually ventilated seats because it's that brand that you just mentioned. 00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:40.160 But we paid a few thousand dollars for that whole kind of package up front which has only kind of the heating and ventilation and an actual massage and you see it's kind of useless. But it's nice. It's nice to turn it on every now and then. But it also has the heated wheel. Steering wheel. 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:59.160 Which was extremely useful in Seattle. And like Florida, I wish it was like it was able to cool the wheel. But if I could pay less a month to like cancel the steering wheel subscription. But still I think that whole thing that we paid for with all of the heating and I think it was like a panoramic roof and all that stuff was probably a few thousand dollars. 00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:07.160 I think it was called like the executive package or something which includes everything. That's what I like actually because we looked at another brand when we were buying the car and they're like you have to pay for like the power windows. 00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:16.160 It's a very expensive German brand by the way. But then you would pay like almost as much in options as you pay for the car itself. It goes like over a hundred thousand dollars. And you were like seriously. 00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:25.160 Toyota doesn't do that. It costs like twenty five hundred dollars. And it has all of that already included. But I think it then they all comes down like capital expenditures versus rating expenditures. 00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:38.160 Like is it cheaper for me to pay BMW but I'm 50 bucks a month and get all of those features. And then if I use the car for three years I end up paying what like three thousand dollars versus let's say spend seven thousand dollars on all those features upfront. 00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:44.160 I think this is where the calculus starts to make sense. But if you want to keep the car for ten years, you're probably better off buying that. 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:54.160 The question is though it's not an option anymore. Yeah, that's what really bothers me is if you want heated seats, you have to do the subscription. 00:30:54.160 --> 00:31:04.160 I think Adobe has done something like that actually. I remember listening to this podcast, I forgot the guy he was a CPO of Adobe. He was a founder of Benant's or Behance or something. 00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:11.160 Binance. Yeah. The idea is a crypto thing. Behance was like a community of creators or something. Then Adobe acquired them and then think he became the CPO. 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:23.160 So he was talking about the transition from one time license fees, which should be like you pay like hundreds of dollars for Adobe product to that creative cloud thing that they have, which is probably twenty is probably the cheapest twenty five. 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:34.160 And I remember that was the point in time when I stopped using Adobe because I don't use it enough to pay twenty five bucks a month, but I can shell out let's say sixty bucks for lightroom one of and use it for next three years. 00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:46.160 Okay, so now we're really running late for our next meeting with our CDO. No, the CDO doesn't accept reschedules unfortunately physical limits says. 00:31:46.160 --> 00:32:00.160 Yeah, and we really have to run for that meeting. We got to wrap up what that's what they say. Yes, we got to wrap up. So yeah, do you want to talk about the subscriptions we have right now? Yeah. 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:18.160 The squad cast, the scrap we already talked about it. We got a bunch of one off actually purchases like I said to open other things, which I'm super happy with. We pay we use calendar. We are on the free plan right now, but it only allows you to connect like one calendar or some restriction like that. 00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:34.160 So what Elias is doing is if he has a like dentist appointment, let's say, right, then he would put a blocker in my calendar. And so yeah, I know when all of Elias dentist appointment because of our time zones and because my calendar is mostly empty that works for us. 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:44.160 I had kind of for the same time zone. We would have to actually pay for this. And also it's another thing. I think it's eight dollars a month per person. I don't think it's worth it. That's the problem. I would pay with our fifty cents per schedule. 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:50.160 I think that's probably way more than they get uses. I think you're talking more and more about like uses based pricing. Yes. 00:32:50.160 --> 00:33:03.160 And openly, I, for example, with chat GPT, they do that. I love that feature because I think there is an option. They do have that option that every month you could do, I think, $20 and get the subscription. 00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:13.160 Or you could do usage based pricing. And I use it quite a lot. It cost me maybe like seven point four, four, nine, six, two, three dollars or something. Less than 20. 00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:21.160 What if you go over 20, really be kept at 20? I don't know. That would take a lot of chat GPT usage, I think. I've not gone there. 00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:32.160 Yeah. So we also pay for Google Drive personally. I mean, both of us pay pay for it personally. And then you have been trying to get Google workspace set up for like a week and a house now, which is crazy. 00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:39.160 Yeah. I mean, I was trying to get onto Google for startups program, what gives you Google workspace for free for a year with a bunch of other credits. 00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:48.160 And I think it's like, you should not have a Google workspace set up in the last 31 days for them to give you the free one, which is why we haven't set it up yet for the company. 00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:58.160 We don't need it frankly right now, but it would be nice to have. And Google being Google, we got to response a week later after submitting the form that something was incorrect. 00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:09.159 And what was incorrect like some email address or some domain? Yeah, like email address domain. And it does not match what you said in here or something, but it actually does match actually does match. 00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:16.159 Or there are some new ones that I'm not understanding. So I sent them a response. It's been two weeks. I sent them a follow up a couple days ago, still no response. 00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:23.159 Yeah, I guess listen to the latest three work episode called the Google graveyard that puts a bit of perspective on how Google works. 00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:36.159 Right. Actually one last thing, even though we're running out of time, I'll add this yesterday, you and I were talking about this. So why Google sculpture is like this versus why Amazon sculpture is different. 00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:47.159 And the thing that we were talking about is it probably starts right from the very beginning of the company with seeds, it's DNA with values with values. 00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:57.159 And so for example, in case of Amazon, it was a book shipping business in the very beginning. So if a customer complains or says like, Hey, where's my book? 00:34:57.159 --> 00:35:05.159 You have to have all of that tooling build to detect like at what step of the process did we fail? 00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:09.159 In fact, if you don't have a tooling, you can't even ship the book. You can't accept the payment. 00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:17.159 It's like every transaction is important to you at a almost personal level. Right. You care about that customer deeply. 00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:30.159 I have accounting of everything that's going on. And that goes into the DNA of Amazon's excellent customer service that we know of today versus Google how they started is this massive search engine. 00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:42.159 And you don't really care about exactly who's searching what you care more about the aggregates and the friends and things like that. And that shows in the DNA of the company today in the customer service. 00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:53.159 Right. Yeah, they're not just dealing with customers. They want to automate dealing with customers. There's Amazon, like you said, every single interaction with the customer, I was a business interaction. I don't know if it was right or if it was it. 00:35:53.159 --> 00:36:01.159 But there is always money involved. I mean, there are probably other things like Alexa and all this stuff. But like the core business, the Amazon.com, the shopping thing, AWS, like you always pay. 00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:06.159 So there is always money involved. And when there is money involved, you have to care about it. Right. 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:13.159 Like how many times a package would be like last because USPS lost it or they did it with somewhere else. Like it's not Amazon's fault at all. 00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:23.159 You just send them a message and sometimes and it's not a thing right try to call in some other companies and you will never be able to get through automated response system Amazon, even if you get a chatbot. 00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:33.159 If it's below certain amount, it just gives me money back. It's actually more effective than human. It's the only childbot, I guess that I actually really enjoy because I'm like, hopefully we will just stop it there. 00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:41.159 The childbot will give me a refund and then I don't need to deal with the human. But then if a human comes on board, it takes a few more minutes. And then we will like, I'm sorry to hear this. Here is your refund. 00:36:41.159 --> 00:36:47.159 Even though it's not even the default. And then that's why I'm spending thousands of dollars on Amazon and Whole Foods and all every year. 00:36:47.159 --> 00:37:01.159 So with that amazing three minute real, let's close this episode. We have coming up next week. We are actually recording here to pretty awesome people. We want to name them or will we? 00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:13.159 Unless it gets canceled. So there's a cool podcast called startup therapy is a guy's a wheel and Ryan they run startups.com website and the community of founders. 00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:18.159 Serial entrepreneurs. Yeah, pretty successful, massively successful. Yeah. 00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:25.159 And their podcast is really really good. I've been doing it. They talk a lot about bootstrapping and VC and all that. It's very, very good. 00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:35.159 So yeah, that episode that you shared with me that's so insightful. And I kept like even though it's a podcast medium, I think I was actively listening and saying like, yes, yes, that makes sense. 00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:39.159 Yeah, we even were listening. 00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:45.159 So I know why it's difficult to change the behavior. So that's going to be on your annual review. 00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:58.159 It might affect your ratings. It's a room for improvement. I think it's called why bootstrapped companies or are bootstrapped companies less valuable than venture by companies? I think it's a 45 minutes episode. I think I'm going to listen to it. It's an amazing episode. 00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:06.159 So we'll have them next week. Yeah. So unless something gets canceled, there is casual. So we'll have them. So I'm really looking forward to getting their wisdom. 00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:16.159 And after that, we have a really special person, but we'll talk about that later. We'll keep it for. Yeah, very special for a specific subset of tech people. 00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:23.159 It's so relevant that if we name that subset of tech people, I think you will know who we are talking about. So we won't even name them right now. 00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:27.159 Exactly. Yeah. All right. And with that, where can people find us? 00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:39.159 Metacastpodcast.com. If you like this episode or you want to talk about your podcast, listening habits, anything in the podcasting domain, drop us an email at hello at Metacastpodcast.com. 00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:44.159 Yeah. If you want to be part of our private alpha for a new podcast app, also send us a note. 00:38:44.159 --> 00:39:02.159 Ilya has started doing like episode specific t-shirts now. So if you want to buy a t-shirt and fund us, yeah, do that. I'm wearing one of Ilya's previous t-shirts, by the way. It's called copy pasta engineer. I love this shirt. It's me. I think you need to make a new one called chat GPT engineer. 00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:31.159 Yeah, because it's not copy pasta from Stack Overflow anymore. From the engineer. From the engineer. I heard a joke about somebody I know he made this real. It's in Russian so we won't share it. It's like a child talking to his, I think, grandparent and saying that like these days, they just copy codes from chat GPT. And he's like, no, you can't do this. And then the dad of this child, he's like, but they are manually typing it from chat GPT into their ID. He's like, okay, yeah, that's just fine. 00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:40.159 They just made me think how like we learned from books previously and actually we did type codes from the books, but I think it was a facilitated understanding of what you're doing. 00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:52.159 And I think finally Ilya, like he said, he does a lot of reals and stuff on Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok. Yeah, so find us on all those places. Give us a like. 00:39:52.159 --> 00:40:03.159 Every time you see our content, just like it because it's a single list. If you don't watch. Well, but here's the thing, right. How real that we share on LinkedIn. Some get like zero impression. 00:40:03.159 --> 00:40:14.159 I mean zero zero, but very small hundred to hundred impressions. And usually those have no likes at all. But then when you have some engagement, those could get like six, eight hundred views. And then just in three 00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:24.159 to one, like it's less than 24 hours. It's been at eight thousand already. But there was quite a bit of engagement going on there. So yeah, engagement is good. Help us game algorithms. 00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:53.159 All right, then with that, I'll start the list. Yes.